View Poll Results: Do you have a conceal and carry permit?

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  • Yes I do

    21 29.17%
  • No I do not

    38 52.78%
  • I don't have one yet, but I'm working on it

    9 12.50%
  • I don't understand the question - can you type slower?

    4 5.56%
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Thread: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

  1. #201
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Actually that isn't always true. There was a case of road rage here a few years ago that escalated into a shooting. The guy just "could not understand what came over him." Rage can make law abiding people do things they otherwise wouldn't. In this case he had a gun and used it. Lucky no one was killed.




    this is one guy, and he was by your anecdote, anyting but "law abiding".... The gun didn't turn him into a kill crazy madman, he did that all on his own....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  2. #202
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    this is one guy, and he was by your anecdote, anyting but "law abiding".... The gun didn't turn him into a kill crazy madman, he did that all on his own....
    He was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off. Most people are law abiding citizens right up to the point where they commit a crime. You are right that guns don't turn people into criminals. It is just a tool for them.
    Like the guy that shot his wife and then himself this week in Hugo Minn. He had never broken the law before. The gun he used was just a tool. Having a gun in the house did not make his wife safer in this case.
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-23-10 at 11:35 AM.

  3. #203
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    He was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off. Most people are law abiding citizens right up to the point where they commit a crime. You are right that guns don't turn people into criminals. It is just a tool for them.
    Like the guy that shot his wife and then himself this week in Hugo Minn. He had never broken the law before. The gun he used was just a tool. Having a gun in the house did not make his wife safer in this case.




    * Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.


    * More guns, less crime. In the decade of the 1990s, the number of guns in this country increased by roughly 40 million—even while the murder rate decreased by almost 40% percent.7 Accidental gun deaths in the home decreased by almost 40 percent as well.8


    * A study claiming "guns are three times more likely to kill you than help you" is a total fraud. Even using the low figures from the Clinton Justice Department, firearms are used almost 50 times more often to save life than to take life.15 More importantly, however, the figure claiming one is three times more likely to be killed by one’s own gun is a total lie:
    * Researcher Don Kates reveals that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims [in the flawed study] were killed using guns not kept in the victim's home."16
    * In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim's household."17








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  4. #204
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    He was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off. Most people are law abiding citizens right up to the point where they commit a crime. You are right that guns don't turn people into criminals. It is just a tool for them.
    Like the guy that shot his wife and then himself this week in Hugo Minn. He had never broken the law before. The gun he used was just a tool. Having a gun in the house did not make his wife safer in this case.
    If he did not have a gun he would have used a knife or his hands. Your point means nothing.

    More lives are saved by carry permits.

    Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives

  5. #205
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    If he did not have a gun he would have used a knife or his hands. Your point means nothing.

    More lives are saved by carry permits.

    Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives
    I support carry permits.
    Guns don't save lives, people save lives.

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    I support carry permits.
    Guns don't save lives, people save lives.
    Guns don't kill people kill!!!

  7. #207
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    * Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.



    [/I]
    These statistics seem to be made up to me. This isn't the country I know. I live in a town of about 20,000 people. People do not carry here and there is virtually no crime. There probably hasn't been a case of a gun being used for defence since the 1950s.
    I guess if I ever felt the need to carry a gun to feel safe I would move. I do however keep a shotgun by my bed.

  8. #208
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    These statistics seem to be made up to me. This isn't the country I know. I live in a town of about 20,000 people. People do not carry here and there is virtually no crime. There probably hasn't been a case of a gun being used for defence since the 1950s.
    I guess if I ever felt the need to carry a gun to feel safe I would move. I do however keep a shotgun by my bed.


    How would you know?



    Footnotes, and sources as you can see. not made up at all.


    1 Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun," 86 The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, 1 (Fall 1995):164.
    Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University in Tallahassee. He has researched extensively and published several essays on the gun control issue. His book, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, has become a widely cited source in the gun control debate. In fact, this book earned Dr. Kleck the prestigious American Society of Criminology Michael J. Hindelang award for 1993. This award is given for the book published in the past two to three years that makes the most outstanding contribution to criminology.

    Even those who don't like the conclusions Dr. Kleck reaches, cannot argue with his impeccable research and methodology. In "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," Marvin E. Wolfgang writes that, "What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. . . . I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence." Wolfgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, at 188.

    Wolfgang says there is no "contrary evidence." Indeed, there are more than a dozen national polls—one of which was conducted by The Los Angeles Times—that have found figures comparable to the Kleck-Gertz study. Even the Clinton Justice Department (through the National Institute of Justice) found there were as many as 1.5 million defensive users of firearms every year. See National Institute of Justice, "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," Research in Brief (May 1997).

    As for Dr. Kleck, readers of his materials may be interested to know that he is a member of the ACLU, Amnesty International USA, and Common Cause. He is not and has never been a member of or contributor to any advocacy group on either side of the gun control debate.

    2 According to the National Safety Council, the total number of gun deaths (by accidents, suicides and homicides) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year. See Injury Facts, published yearly by the National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #209
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    "Estimates of these types of defensive uses of firearms
    are wide ranging, from a low of 65,000 to 82,000 annual defensive
    gun uses (DGUs) reported to the U.S. Department of Justice's National
    Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to a high end of some 2.1-2.5
    million annual DGUs"
    I do not put a lot of faith in statistics since 98% of them are made up.

  10. #210
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    How would you know?



    Footnotes, and sources as you can see. not made up at all.


    1 Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun," 86 The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, 1 (Fall 1995):164.
    Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University in Tallahassee. He has researched extensively and published several essays on the gun control issue. His book, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, has become a widely cited source in the gun control debate. In fact, this book earned Dr. Kleck the prestigious American Society of Criminology Michael J. Hindelang award for 1993. This award is given for the book published in the past two to three years that makes the most outstanding contribution to criminology.

    Even those who don't like the conclusions Dr. Kleck reaches, cannot argue with his impeccable research and methodology. In "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," Marvin E. Wolfgang writes that, "What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. . . . I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence." Wolfgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, at 188.

    Wolfgang says there is no "contrary evidence." Indeed, there are more than a dozen national polls—one of which was conducted by The Los Angeles Times—that have found figures comparable to the Kleck-Gertz study. Even the Clinton Justice Department (through the National Institute of Justice) found there were as many as 1.5 million defensive users of firearms every year. See National Institute of Justice, "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," Research in Brief (May 1997).

    As for Dr. Kleck, readers of his materials may be interested to know that he is a member of the ACLU, Amnesty International USA, and Common Cause. He is not and has never been a member of or contributor to any advocacy group on either side of the gun control debate.

    2 According to the National Safety Council, the total number of gun deaths (by accidents, suicides and homicides) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year. See Injury Facts, published yearly by the National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.
    I know. For one thing it's illegal and this is a law abiding town. We are not dumb enough to risk a weapons charge when crime in non-existant. We are a town of hunters and gun owners and the only people carrying here are the police.

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