View Poll Results: What goverment service that benefits you would you give up?

Voters
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  • Military

    15 23.08%
  • Infrastructure, such as federal highways

    15 23.08%
  • Scientific Research or Agencies such as NOAA

    12 18.46%
  • Education

    32 49.23%
  • Homeland Security / Law Enforcement (FBI)

    23 35.38%
  • Court System

    8 12.31%
  • Federal Reserve

    27 41.54%
  • Regulatory Agencies such as the FDA or NIST

    29 44.62%
  • Cultural Grants

    45 69.23%
  • Earmarks for your state or county

    49 75.38%
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Thread: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

  1. #71
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?



    That's a good chart. An overwhelming majority of our federal spending by year goes to social security, medicaid, welfare, unemployment, and interest on the national debt. We cannot sustain the cost of these benefits without signficant tax increases. THose things amount to 60% of our annual federal budget. Cutting the rest won't even make an impact. When the boomers retire, it's gonna get a whole lot worse.

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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Europe would have been devastated by World War III. Communism might still be around, and it certainly would have expanded its reach when it WAS around. European countries (if they retained their independence) would likely try to fill the power vacuum with militaries of their own, which might have turned on each other given the history of the continent. There would be no serious military relief for tragedies like Haiti. There would be no country with the credibility to broker peace in apartheid South Africa, or prevent a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Nuclear weapons would almost certainly have proliferated much more widely than they actually have. And dictatorships around the world would be emboldened, as there would be no powerful country advocating for human rights.

    The US military certainly blunders from time to time (see: Second Iraq War) but IMO it is essential to preserving "global civilization" as Oftencold said.
    WWII was essential because of Hitler? Right, and a war after that was essential too because Stalin wanted to spread communism all over Europe. It would have beem best to have declared war on the Soviet Union right after V day in Europe. That would have saved the world from so much more misery that communism brought. Oh well though.
    How was the strength of the US military essential for preventing a nuclear war between India and Pakistan? If anything since both developed nuclear weapons that made it less possible for either one to use a nuke.
    Also, many dictatorships did happen around the world regardless of our military strength and many were in fact supported by the US. You may not like this or many other members as well. But the truth is that dictatorships are good for foreign policy. Think about it.
    We can't preserve "global civilization" because what one may find civilize in one country in another they won't. So really this whole idea that we are preserving "global civilization" is a pretty big lie. And we are not really good for human rights either.
    Last edited by Gray_Fox_86; 01-20-10 at 06:30 PM.

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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post


    That's a good chart. An overwhelming majority of our federal spending by year goes to social security, medicaid, welfare, unemployment, and interest on the national debt. We cannot sustain the cost of these benefits without signficant tax increases. THose things amount to 60% of our annual federal budget. Cutting the rest won't even make an impact. When the boomers retire, it's gonna get a whole lot worse.
    That's why I say we kill all the old people.

  4. #74
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being View Post
    How was the strength of the US military essential for preventing a nuclear war between India and Pakistan? If anything since both developed nuclear weapons that made it less possible for either one to use a nuke.
    Neither of them seem to have the same aversion to the use of nuclear weapons that the US and USSR had during the Cold War. There has never been an outright war between two nuclear powers before...but they came very very close to war a few years ago, and it took the US to broker a truce between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being
    Also, many dictatorships did happen around the world regardless of our military strength and many were in fact supported by the US.
    Absolutely, but the number of instances where US involvement has prevented a democratic movement are vastly smaller than the number of instances where US involvement has encouraged a democratic movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being
    You may not like this or many other members as well. But the truth is that dictatorships are good for foreign policy. Think about it.
    I'm not saying dictatorships are inherently good OR inherently bad, but there would be a lot more states that were a lot more inclined to abuse human rights if the United States didn't wag its finger at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being
    We can't preserve "global civilization" because what one may find civilize in one country in another they won't. So really this whole idea that we are preserving "global civilization" is a pretty big lie. And we are not really good for human rights either.
    The United States is excellent in terms of human rights: there is almost total freedom of speech/press, there aren't extrajudicial killings or disappearances of political opponents, the government goes out of its way to protect the civil liberties of criminal suspects, etc.
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  5. #75
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Here's an example, you can follow it in private if you wish.

    Repeat after me:

    Dictatorships are inherently bad.

    See?

    Was that difficult?

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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post





    The United States is excellent in terms of human rights: there is almost total freedom of speech/press, there aren't extrajudicial killings or disappearances of political opponents, the government goes out of its way to protect the civil liberties of criminal suspects, etc.
    You see that is where you and I differ, "The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media."- William Colby former CIA director.
    Let me explain that if the major media is controlled by a few-which it is-they can control what content is broadcasted. And not only that but a few is more easy to control then many. And we don't rank to high up on the world for diversity of the press. Colby might have been murdered because he was investigating a prostitution ring run by politicians. Does that scare you?
    We don't have as many extrajudicial killings or disappearances of political opponents because the system has successfully curtailed any real difference between the political parties. So killings or disappearances are not necessary in an environment that is controlled.
    Last edited by Gray_Fox_86; 01-20-10 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    My bad.

    I'm not talking about fighting World Wars or disbanding the US Military. WWII had to be fought, no argument there, and the US industrial might was instrumental in winning that. We absolutely have to have a military.

    I'm talking about the meddling. I'm talking about hundreds of military bases we have stationed around the world in peaceful nations. Nations with standing, funded armies perfectly capable of defending themselves. We pay for that. We pay Trillions for that.

    Sorry about that. After reading my post again I see why you posted what you did.

    "Trillions"?

    We like to exagerrating the a few orders of magnitude, do we?

    Not that I'm disagreeing with the intent. Certainly since the Germans hate us we should evacuate their country. We'll make sure to tell the Russians when we turn the lights out. And we should tell France, "Don't call us, we'll call you". Yeah, there's lots of money we could be saving...but we can't pretend we don't have interests best served by some overseas bases.

    I don't see the US vacating Diego Garcia any time soon, for example.

  8. #78
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Evidently, I'm willing to give up nothing...
    The department of war and homeland security, the CIA and the FBI could all be merged into one, with one leader.
    These overlap,IMO.
    We do have duplicated efforts in many areas...all part of reform...which, with the conservatives in power will never happen..

  9. #79
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being View Post
    You see that is where you and I differ, "The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media."- William Colby former CIA director.
    Let me explain that if the major media is controlled by a few-which it is-they can control what content is broadcasted. And not only that but a few is more easy to control then many. And we don't rank to high up on the world for diversity of the press.
    Even if that were true, the internet has diffused the power of the media. You can call the president a Nazi all you want, and no one is going to come arrest you. You have almost complete freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being
    Colby might have been murdered because he was investigating a prostitution ring run by politicians. Does that scare you?
    I really have no idea what you're talking about...if it's a conspiracy theory I'm not interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being
    We don't have as many extrajudicial killings or disappearances of political opponents because the system has successfully curtailed any real difference between the political parties. So killings or disappearances are not necessary in an environment that is controlled.
    No difference between the political parties? Are you aware that about a month ago, every single Senate Democrat voted for an 800 billion dollar health care bill, and every single Senate Republican voted against it? I'd call that a pretty significant difference.
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Evidently, I'm willing to give up nothing...
    The department of war and homeland security, the CIA and the FBI could all be merged into one, with one leader.
    These overlap,IMO.
    We do have duplicated efforts in many areas...all part of reform...which, with the conservatives in power will never happen..
    Technically they already are under the department of defense. So you see? And the one leader is Robert Gates. And they don't really overlap because the CIA worries about things overseas and the FBI worries about domestic as the homeland security worry about borders and points of entry along with ICE.

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