View Poll Results: What goverment service that benefits you would you give up?

Voters
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  • Military

    15 23.08%
  • Infrastructure, such as federal highways

    15 23.08%
  • Scientific Research or Agencies such as NOAA

    12 18.46%
  • Education

    32 49.23%
  • Homeland Security / Law Enforcement (FBI)

    23 35.38%
  • Court System

    8 12.31%
  • Federal Reserve

    27 41.54%
  • Regulatory Agencies such as the FDA or NIST

    29 44.62%
  • Cultural Grants

    45 69.23%
  • Earmarks for your state or county

    49 75.38%
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Thread: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

  1. #61
    Educator Winnb's Avatar
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't agree with Oftencold very much, but he's right in this case. Think about what the world would look like without the US military. Not a pretty picture.

    So paint the picture. What would it look like?
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  2. #62
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    That phrase gets thrown around a lot, but many of those Asian/African colonies did at least as well under European rule as they're doing under self-rule.

    Do you believe the US is better off with self-rule or outside rule?

    Do you believe the US is better off when the power is vested in the people or with a government located in a foreign land?

    If you believe the US is better off when we are self-governed, why would you NOT believe the same of other nations? Are they too stupid to rule themselves, too backwards, too aggressive, too weak... what?
    Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

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  3. #63
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    So paint the picture. What would it look like?
    Europe would have been devastated by World War III. Communism might still be around, and it certainly would have expanded its reach when it WAS around. European countries (if they retained their independence) would likely try to fill the power vacuum with militaries of their own, which might have turned on each other given the history of the continent. There would be no serious military relief for tragedies like Haiti. There would be no country with the credibility to broker peace in apartheid South Africa, or prevent a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Nuclear weapons would almost certainly have proliferated much more widely than they actually have. And dictatorships around the world would be emboldened, as there would be no powerful country advocating for human rights.

    The US military certainly blunders from time to time (see: Second Iraq War) but IMO it is essential to preserving "global civilization" as Oftencold said.
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  4. #64
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Europe would have been devastated by World War III. Communism might still be around, and it certainly would have expanded its reach when it WAS around. European countries (if they retained their independence) would likely try to fill the power vacuum with militaries of their own, which might have turned on each other given the history of the continent. There would be no serious military relief for tragedies like Haiti. There would be no country with the credibility to broker peace in apartheid South Africa, or prevent a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Nuclear weapons would almost certainly have proliferated much more widely than they actually have. And dictatorships around the world would be emboldened, as there would be no powerful country advocating for human rights.

    The US military certainly blunders from time to time (see: Second Iraq War) but IMO it is essential to preserving "global civilization" as Oftencold said.

    Not a pretty picture, to be sure. So, when the baton of "world's only superpower" gets passed on to China, as it looks like it will in the next century or so, how would you feel about them having bases here?
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  5. #65
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    Do you believe the US is better off with self-rule or outside rule?
    Self-rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb
    Do you believe the US is better off when the power is vested in the people or with a government located in a foreign land?
    The people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb
    If you believe the US is better off when we are self-governed, why would you NOT believe the same of other nations?
    Because not all other nations are governed as well as the United States. I'm not saying we need to go invade every country in the world that isn't governing itself properly, but I wish that people wouldn't just drop the phrase "White man's burden" as though it ends any argument, since a lot of those countries did fairly well under colonialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb
    Are they too stupid to rule themselves, too backwards, too aggressive, too weak... what?
    Depends on the country. It could be any of those things, or a combination.
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  6. #66
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Europe would have been devastated by World War III. Communism might still be around, and it certainly would have expanded its reach when it WAS around. European countries (if they retained their independence) would likely try to fill the power vacuum with militaries of their own, which might have turned on each other given the history of the continent. There would be no serious military relief for tragedies like Haiti. There would be no country with the credibility to broker peace in apartheid South Africa, or prevent a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Nuclear weapons would almost certainly have proliferated much more widely than they actually have. And dictatorships around the world would be emboldened, as there would be no powerful country advocating for human rights.

    The US military certainly blunders from time to time (see: Second Iraq War) but IMO it is essential to preserving "global civilization" as Oftencold said.
    My bad.

    I'm not talking about fighting World Wars or disbanding the US Military. WWII had to be fought, no argument there, and the US industrial might was instrumental in winning that. We absolutely have to have a military.

    I'm talking about the meddling. I'm talking about hundreds of military bases we have stationed around the world in peaceful nations. Nations with standing, funded armies perfectly capable of defending themselves. We pay for that. We pay Trillions for that.

    Sorry about that. After reading my post again I see why you posted what you did.
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  7. #67
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not a pretty picture, to be sure. So, when the baton of "world's only superpower" gets passed on to China, as it looks like it will in the next century or so,
    Unlikely, unless China makes a lot of effective reforms to its system of government. Which, given that timescale, is certainly a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not!
    how would you feel about them having bases here?
    You mean the Chinese regime today? Well I'd be opposed to that, of course. Or the Chinese regime 100 years from now? I have no idea.
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  8. #68
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Europe would have been devastated by World War III. Communism might still be around, and it certainly would have expanded its reach when it WAS around. European countries (if they retained their independence) would likely try to fill the power vacuum with militaries of their own, which might have turned on each other given the history of the continent. There would be no serious military relief for tragedies like Haiti. There would be no country with the credibility to broker peace in apartheid South Africa, or prevent a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Nuclear weapons would almost certainly have proliferated much more widely than they actually have. And dictatorships around the world would be emboldened, as there would be no powerful country advocating for human rights.

    The US military certainly blunders from time to time (see: Second Iraq War) but IMO it is essential to preserving "global civilization" as Oftencold said.
    You painted a pretty good scenario until you inserted "(see: Second Iraq War)".

    But was worthy of a Thanks even with a slight blunder.

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    Last edited by zimmer; 01-20-10 at 06:06 PM.
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post


    Because not all other nations are governed as well as the United States. I'm not saying we need to go invade every country in the world that isn't governing itself properly, but I wish that people wouldn't just drop the phrase "White man's burden" as though it ends any argument, since a lot of those countries did fairly well under colonialism.
    I agree. Many countries did better under the rule of another nation. But in the end that's wrong. People should be free to make all the bad choices they want. People get the government they deserve. And when the US, whether through the CIA and covert ops (which we've done) or through our military meddles in the affairs of other nations it always ends up costing us blood and money.

    My opinion is we should lead by example. Lead through education. Lead through commerce and free trade. Lead by showing the world our prosperity and successes. ALL because of our freedoms and our capitalist system.

    There are lots of ways to lead the world without using a gun barrel to point the way.
    Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

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  10. #70
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    Re: What would you be willing to give up to reduce the size of government?

    Axe the federal DOE, since most educational responsibilities are handled at the state/county/local level. Axe cultural grants and earmarks. That still probably won't balance our budgets, however, because the current crop of retirees has voted themselves the most lucrative retirement package in the history of our nation. Yet another reason to despise the baby boomers.

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