View Poll Results: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

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  • Yes

    19 33.33%
  • no

    25 43.86%
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Thread: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You're right that it's purely speculative, but gun-ownership and responsibility seems to be more ingrained with rural cultures than with urban and suburban cultures.

    I knew a lot of "Southern" people in the Marines, and just about everyone of them were familiar with firearms whereas most the "big city" types were clueless. It was a pretty large sample size, by the way, so it's not entirely unscientific.

    Anyway, before joining the Marine Corps, I had never even touched a firearm in my life. I had no idea how to handle one responsibly. I think it's totally rational to assume that other suburbanites are equally ignorant of firearm safety.

    I shot expert, by the way...
    What I'm saying is that if 75% of rural kids grow up around guns, but only 25% of urban kids do, then the urban kids would have to be three times more careless before they had the same number of accidents per capita. And once we've limited the sample to those who DO grow up with guns, I see no particular reason to assume the urban kids are more careless at all...certainly not THAT much more careless.

    I agree that urbanites, in general, are less trained in firearms than rural folk. But that's mainly due to fewer firearms, not because those who do have them are less trained.

    Since rural kids are more likely to own guns or randomly encounter them lying around, these kind of classes would be more useful than they would in, say, DC.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Given that the 2nd looks to be upheld in the US for quite some time, it makes sense to make sure that kids can stay as safe as possible; by whichever way is more successful.

    As far as I can see, a decision as to which way would be more successful would be based on two factors; one for and one against. 'For' would be the number of accidents prevented by more people being able to competently handle firearms. 'Against' would be the number of accidents/incidents caused by people mistakenly believing that they can handle a firearm in a given situation (an extreme example; if someone already has a gun to your head, having the misplaced confidence to reach for your own is probably not a good thing).

    The parallel here would be in teaching sex ed (with the aim of reducing accidental pregnancies); 'teaching them will only encourage them' vs 'they'll do it anyway, it's better for them to know how to be safe when the time comes'. In that case, teaching is definitely better. In this case (alas), I don't know the size of either of the two factors - and I doubt that much data would exist on it beyond trying it out and seeing the results. A lot of either factor could depend on the competence and content of the safety course, as with all education.

    I'd certainly leave the 'essential freedom' and 'examples of when a gun would have saved a life' teachings out of it, though, unless you were also to teach opposing points of view. A gun safety class should teach gun safety, not civics and certainly not one particular mindset on constitutionality.
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think it should be taught in schools, but as an elective course.

    I think parents who own firearms would be wise to make sure their children are proficient in firearms safety, whether they get that info through school or other avenues.
    I think parent's who's children might have friends who have guns at their home would be wise to enroll their child in the course....unless you never let your kids spend the night anywhere.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    America was founded on a tradition of private ownership of arms, as both a needful tool, a means of self-protection, and a final bulwark against tyranny. We continue to view personal arms in this manner. In Europe, those who come closest to our viewpoint are the Swiss, but there are substantial differences in detail.
    I Switzerland all men receive military training and thus learn the basics of gun safety.

    There is that fact that criminals, who do not obey gun laws, tend to get guns if they want them no matter what the law says. Gun laws chiefly serve to disarm the law-abiding, leaving them more at the mercy of the armed thug.
    Of course you can always get an illegal gun. The point is that gun restrictions make it a lot more difficult and expensive to get one, thus reducing the number of armed criminals.

    If gun ownership is widespread burglars will steal guns too and sell them on the black market. By reducing gun ownership the supply of illegal firearms will be reduced.

    Any government which has an armed citizenry must be wary of pushing the People too hard, lest they take up arms and rebel, or start assassinating politicians. Our Founders believed that an armed citizenry was such an essential building block to a free society that they enshrined that right as the second of ten Amendments enumerating the most essential rights of the people.

    In short, when the State has a monopoly on armed force, your rights as a citizen are at the sufferance of the State's armed thugs. When you are in possession of arms capable of largely equalizing the equation, the State must take care not to arouse the population. Before someone starts talking about cruise missles and smart bombs, and how the military is far too powerful to be resisted by a citizenry with rifles, do two things: first look up Fourth Generation Warfare, then consider that the US military numbers about 3.5 million, whereas American gunowners number around 90 million.... many of them veterans.
    I think gun ownership is a fake safeguard against tyranny. Individuals can only overthrow a government if they are organised. Organisation is far superior to gun ownership in this matter.

    I also don't think you could get all 90 million gun owners to rebel. Even if you could get a half of the gun owners to join your revolution they would not stand a chance against the military and the police. A more likely scenario for a rebellion would be some small far-right militia group who choose to commit terrorism.

    Nor does gun control deter people from murdering. They simply obtain guns illegally, or resort to knives and bats.
    It does make murder harder to commit. You can kill someone with a single shot while killing someone with a knife is far more messy and takes more time; you also have to get closer to your victim which again makes it harder to do. Stabbing someone to death is a far more difficult thing to do psychologically than shooting them to death which can be done in a single moment of rage.

    Contrary to a baseless assumption you made in an earlier post, burglaries often do turn violent when the homeowner is present...and often they begin with violence...look up Home Invasion. The point is when someone breaks into your house, *you do not know their intentions!* Pausing to inquire politely whether they merely wish to steal your TV, or whether they also have plans to stay for dinner and rape your daughter after shooting you in the head, is a good way to get killed.
    I've talked to a few burglars. None of them wanted to meet the people who lived in the houses they stole from as it would be far too much a strain on their conscience. This goes so far that most burglars will actually cover family portraits so they don't have to look into the eyes of their victims. They don't like doing burglaries but they need the money for drugs.

    Most burglars don't want to turn violent and face robbery charges instead of burglary. They also know that if they turn violent the risk of getting caught will rise because witnesses will have seen them. Thus virtually all of them choose to run away and break into another house instead.

    Burglars are not psychopathic killers. They are either maladjusted teenagers, drug addicts or professionals who are too smart to turn violent and thus increasing the risk of getting caught.

    If you do not have the right to defend your home against invading criminals with whatever level of force seems necessary, you are not free, IMO. You are under the subjection of any violent criminal who sees fit to break in your door, and that isn't liberty.
    In most places you are free to defend yourself against crime. However a legitimate self-defence can turn into a crime in itself if the defence is out of proportion with the crime.

    If I for instance were to know that somebody was going to utter slanderous remarks about me I don't think anyone would think it was justifiable if I killed him - even if that was the only thing I could do to stop him.

    I note that you live in Denmark... well, do things your way in Denmark, and leave us to our way in America. I suggest that you do not immigrate to America. You wouldn't fit in here too well.
    I certainly have no plans to emigrate to America but I like your country and like debating with you
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  5. #85
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I think parent's who's children might have friends who have guns at their home would be wise to enroll their child in the course....unless you never let your kids spend the night anywhere.
    Well, personally I think it's wise for every parent to teach their kids gun safety, but I wouldn't force it upon them by making it mandatory.

    What I really should have said is that it's especially unwise for gun owners to not teach their kids the ins and outs of gun safety.

    It's something I plan on teaching my children regardless of whether or not I own a gun in the house or not.
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Well, personally I think it's wise for every parent to teach their kids gun safety, but I wouldn't force it upon them by making it mandatory.
    I have no problem "forcing" this on children just as I have no problem "forcing" driver's ed or first-aid.

  7. #87
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Useful subjects should be taught.
    Firearms should be banned for all.
    Safety is so overstated and overused, it is pathetic.
    If firearms become a standard for our society in the future......No, this cannot be.
    What a horrible future.
    And that one could be so hateful to even propose this...

    We could ship all of our firearms to Haiti so that they could drink them ,rather than water.
    This statement epitomizes how sick some of our society has become..

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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Useful subjects should be taught.
    Firearms should be banned for all.
    Safety is so overstated and overused, it is pathetic.
    If firearms become a standard for our society in the future......No, this cannot be.
    What a horrible future.
    And that one could be so hateful to even propose this...

    We could ship all of our firearms to Haiti so that they could drink them ,rather than water.
    This statement epitomizes how sick some of our society has become..
    Yea, firearms should be banned for all. Then only criminals would own guns. What a great idea.

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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Yea, firearms should be banned for all. Then only criminals would own guns. What a great idea.
    A strange argument(sounds conservative), based on what?
    We need to have far more people involved in politics...it should be at 100%, ideally, that should be our goal.
    Then, only the police, but this too should be "modernized".
    Criminals, why do we have criminals ?
    This must be worked on.
    Have the English been successful in riding themselves of these instruments of death and destruction ?

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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    A strange argument(sounds conservative), based on what?
    Based on the fact that criminals do not obey the law.

    We need to have far more people involved in politics...it should be at 100%, ideally, that should be our goal.
    Then, only the police, but this too should be "modernized".
    Criminals, why do we have criminals ?
    This must be worked on.
    Have the English been successful in riding themselves of these instruments of death and destruction ?
    I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

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