View Poll Results: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

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Thread: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In theory, I wouldn't mind too much, requiring someone to pass a class or exam on basic firearms safety and/or marksmanship before they were allowed to independently possess firearms. Educated/trained and safe gun owners are clearly a benefit to society.

    In practice, the problem is this: once you allow gov't to set the standards under which you may exercise a right, gov't is free to raise the bar irrationally high until no one (or at least, no one without "friends in high places") can pass the standard... and the right becomes an unattainable privilege. We've seen how this works with some states having "discretionary issue" concealed-carry licenses...and it being nearly impossible to get one unless you play golf with someone named Kennedy.

    On the whole, thumbs down to the idea.

    This is why I think making it a required subject in school a good compromise. It ensures that future generations are more fire arm safety conscience and know how to use a firearm while at the same time the government doesn't get to say you must jump this hoop and this hoop to exercise a constitutional right.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  2. #42
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I disagree with that part. You do not need to ask the government permission to exercise rights.
    That's not entirely true. And in this case it would be a fairly moot point. The classes would be offered before people would be old enough to purchase a firearm. As far as passing it goes, should we really be offering guns up to people who have proven they can't handle them safely?
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    That's not entirely true. And in this case it would be a fairly moot point. The classes would be offered before people would be old enough to purchase a firearm. As far as passing it goes, should we really be offering guns up to people who have proven they can't handle them safely?
    Well, as to that, i'm sure they could aquire one, regardless of any "offering up".

    I suppose some gunshops could require a passing grade in a standard test given to those who took such a class. But that would be up to them.
    Education.

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  4. #44
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    As far as passing it goes, should we really be offering guns up to people who have proven they can't handle them safely?
    The thing about rights is that you do not need to prove **** to the government to exercise them. Should we make people take "speech classes" and "get licenses from the government before they can join political forums to discuss politics? Who knows you might revel government secrets or slander someone.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #45
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    That's not entirely true. And in this case it would be a fairly moot point. The classes would be offered before people would be old enough to purchase a firearm. As far as passing it goes, should we really be offering guns up to people who have proven they can't handle them safely?
    That doesn't address my point, that letting government set the standards to exercise a right, allows them to raise the bar so high no one can meet it. I cited examples of how this has already been done.

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  6. #46
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The thing about rights is that you do not need to prove **** to the government to exercise them. Should we make people take "speech classes" and "get licenses from the government before they can join political forums to discuss politics? Who knows you might revel government secrets or slander someone.
    We do have to get licenses to exercise our right to free speech in some situations.
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That doesn't address my point, that letting government set the standards to exercise a right, allows them to raise the bar so high no one can meet it. I cited examples of how this has already been done.
    Slippery slope fallacy. Yes, it would allow them to do so, but that doesn't mean that they will. If the government is setting the standards too high, vote for someone who'll set them lower.
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    We do have to get licenses to exercise our right to free speech in some situations.
    An example or two please?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Slippery slope fallacy. Yes, it would allow them to do so, but that doesn't mean that they will. If the government is setting the standards too high, vote for someone who'll set them lower.
    From what I’ve seen, if we let our government gain power, it is extremely hard to get them to release it.

    Basically, I don't trust them.

    So IMO, not allowing any even vague infringement (even if it seems it would make us safer, perhaps) is the best route.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #50
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    Re: Should firearm use and safety be a required subject in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Slippery slope fallacy. Yes, it would allow them to do so, but that doesn't mean that they will. If the government is setting the standards too high, vote for someone who'll set them lower.
    No, thank you, I think that, as imperfect as it is, I prefer the present status quo to letting government get it's foot in that door. Especially since firearm accidents have been on the decline for a long time anyway.

    The "slippery slope fallacy" does not apply if the slope is greased and you're being pushed.

    At any rate, if it is a "fallacy", there are a number of states already practicing that fallacy in the way they handle concealed carry permits under their "discretionary issue" policy.
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-15-10 at 11:23 PM.

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