View Poll Results: What is your prediction

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  • Economic apocalypse

    1 7.14%
  • Unavodable economic crash

    5 35.71%
  • Impoverment of the west

    0 0%
  • Massive negative economic correction

    4 28.57%
  • Nothing will be done and in 10 years we face and even worse situation

    5 35.71%
  • Things will improve(for everyone except the west)

    0 0%
  • Things will improve

    2 14.29%
  • We can just forfeit our debts and dont worry about other approaching disasters

    0 0%
  • The economy will keep roaring

    1 7.14%
  • Other opinion(explain)

    3 21.43%
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Thread: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

  1. #1
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    Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    - Skjuler enorme mengder statsgjeld | Nyhetsarkivet | BÝrs og finans | E24
    Article is not in English, sorry. Cant find the equivilant English one. This however is a serious scandinavian economics newspaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix Zulauf
    Governments across the world owe enourmous amounts of money.
    He goes on to talk about how the real debts og governments are even higher than they admit, and that they hide real numbers. The official debt is scarily high, but real numbers are even more scary.

    The point of this thread,is that Zulauf is talking about something that is inevitable in all scenarios. That the indebted western governments will have to start taxing more and cutting spendings to avoid a complete economic meltdown. He goes on to mention how states have tried to solve a debt faith crisis by taking on more debt and how this further damages the economies.

    He talks about how higher taxes will be detrimental to an already vulnerable position we have with weak economies in financial crisis(which is really just a correction IMO).

    Topping this with the end of the stimulous spending will create a situation where the population of the west have to face the reality.

    What is your prediction?
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  2. #2
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post

    He goes on to talk about how the real debts og governments are even higher than they admit, and that they hide real numbers. The official debt is scarily high, but real numbers are even more scary.



    He talks about how higher taxes will be detrimental to an already vulnerable position we have with weak economies in financial crisis(which is really just a correction IMO).

    Topping this with the end of the stimulous spending will create a situation where the population of the west have to face the reality.

    What is your prediction?
    It's hard to say with any certainty, but I would have to choose something along the lines of a severe correction, at least here in the States. People here tend to live way above their means, we consume lots of resources, we value our "stuff", and we tend to have a very unrealistic view of just what we are capable of. We having a growing government-dependent class, lots of people who don't contribute, and those of us who carry the load are getting disgusted with it.

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    I don't think that this crash is over. I think that eventually people are going to be fed up with Keynesianism that we have right now and Obama will be ousted. A monetarist will be voted in, cut the budget, and it will help somewhat. However, we still will have problems with personal debt. I know it's a long shot, but I'm calling for either competing currencies or a gold standard (not necessarily mutually exclusive).
    Last edited by phattonez; 01-14-10 at 05:49 PM.

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  4. #4
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Personally, I understand economics so little that I have no real idea what is going to happen.

    I can make random guesses, but...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    American pundits like to discuss the ten trillion dollar deficit.

    They're lying by a minimum of two full orders of magnitude.

    Nothing will be done because few discuss the problem and those few are ignored or relegated to "crackpot" status and then ignored.

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    I predict a collapse and paradigm shift into a new system of living. The entire system right now is about overconsumption, non-sustainable practices, and living beyond our means. Now the developing nations are beginning to borrow beyond their means so they can start living better off, copying our Western consumerism in the process. The whole thing is going to come crashing down, either when human error fails to account for massive deficits, or when the world can no longer handle our large ecological footprint and completely collapses.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm actually hopeful about the future, but the history of humans shows us that we never change unless faced with hardship, at which point we become strong and rise above it. When we're comfortable and lazy is when the worst disasters happen.

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    ...When we're comfortable and lazy is when the worst disasters happen.
    In that case, we're f'in screwed.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  8. #8
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I predict a collapse and paradigm shift into a new system of living. The entire system right now is about overconsumption, non-sustainable practices, and living beyond our means. Now the developing nations are beginning to borrow beyond their means so they can start living better off, copying our Western consumerism in the process. The whole thing is going to come crashing down, either when human error fails to account for massive deficits, or when the world can no longer handle our large ecological footprint and completely collapses.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm actually hopeful about the future, but the history of humans shows us that we never change unless faced with hardship, at which point we become strong and rise above it. When we're comfortable and lazy is when the worst disasters happen.
    Do we not have to start living in a completely different way? Allocate work and resources towards useful things and such? We have to work together all of us for mankind to surivive.. Do I think that will happen? I certainly doubt it. What is the alternative?
    The alternative is that politicians are aware and are not even trying to change things, but planning something else.

    Anyone heard of the "Svalbard seedbank"?
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Do we not have to start living in a completely different way? Allocate work and resources towards useful things and such? We have to work together all of us for mankind to surivive.. Do I think that will happen? I certainly doubt it. What is the alternative?
    The alternative is that politicians are aware and are not even trying to change things, but planning something else.

    Anyone heard of the "Svalbard seedbank"?
    I think the Western world, and especially North America, will be the very last place to make the shift. Many developing nations who are not so entrenched in our system yet are in a better position to acknowledge what isn't working. In our part of the world, and especially in the U.S., the fear of "socialism" has been skillfully ingrained by generations of clever politicians and elites, and this has fractured the idea of collective benefit and working towards the benefit of all.

    Politicians... yes... they have no intention of leading the system down a better path, most of them anyway. I would say that the ones with the best intentions are in the minority and so get easily overcome by the majority of their counterparts. Government is powerful but the ties that give it power are actually quite tenuous, such as the financial system. This is one of the reasons why the current order is not meant to last, imo.

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I think the Western world, and especially North America, will be the very last place to make the shift. Many developing nations who are not so entrenched in our system yet are in a better position to acknowledge what isn't working. In our part of the world, and especially in the U.S., the fear of "socialism" has been skillfully ingrained by generations of clever politicians and elites, and this has fractured the idea of collective benefit and working towards the benefit of all.

    Politicians... yes... they have no intention of leading the system down a better path, most of them anyway. I would say that the ones with the best intentions are in the minority and so get easily overcome by the majority of their counterparts. Government is powerful but the ties that give it power are actually quite tenuous, such as the financial system. This is one of the reasons why the current order is not meant to last, imo.
    What isn't working is the collectivist/socialist/bull****ivist notion that I'm supposed to pay for a stranger's upkeep.

    That false notion is the downfall of nations, from Rome to the United States.

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