View Poll Results: What is your prediction

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  • Economic apocalypse

    1 7.14%
  • Unavodable economic crash

    5 35.71%
  • Impoverment of the west

    0 0%
  • Massive negative economic correction

    4 28.57%
  • Nothing will be done and in 10 years we face and even worse situation

    5 35.71%
  • Things will improve(for everyone except the west)

    0 0%
  • Things will improve

    2 14.29%
  • We can just forfeit our debts and dont worry about other approaching disasters

    0 0%
  • The economy will keep roaring

    1 7.14%
  • Other opinion(explain)

    3 21.43%
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Thread: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

  1. #11
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What isn't working is the collectivist/socialist/bull****ivist notion that I'm supposed to pay for a stranger's upkeep.

    That false notion is the downfall of nations, from Rome to the United States.
    Exhibit A.

  2. #12
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    He goes on to talk about how the real debts og governments are even higher than they admit, and that they hide real numbers. The official debt is scarily high, but real numbers are even more scary.
    Yep, and they're not the only ones hiding/covering their debts. Sounds like all the banks when we found out Lehman was going bankrupt.
    The only difference is that now, the people who bailed 'em out have been doing the same thing all along.


    The irony of it all.
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former" - Albert Einstein

  3. #13
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What isn't working is the collectivist/socialist/bull****ivist notion that I'm supposed to pay for a stranger's upkeep.

    That false notion is the downfall of nations, from Rome to the United States.
    You seem to not understand that how humanity lives now cannot continue, even if we found endless resources on the moon for energy.

    We are heading for a handful of disasters that we arent doing anything to stop. Our societies are built around selfishness, greed and overconsumption. If you cant figure out why that is wrong, then I beg you to try again-and-again until you do. It should benefit your outlook on life, human society and a lot of other things.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    You seem to not understand that how humanity lives now cannot continue, even if we found endless resources on the moon for energy.
    If we could find endless resources on the moon then why couldn't we continue as we are? In fact, we can assume that advances in technology give us nearly an infinite supply of energy. So why do we need to worry as long as we pay the market price for energy right now?

    We are heading for a handful of disasters that we arent doing anything to stop. Our societies are built around selfishness, greed and overconsumption. If you cant figure out why that is wrong, then I beg you to try again-and-again until you do. It should benefit your outlook on life, human society and a lot of other things.
    None of these things are bad unless you distort market signals. When you do that, then yes, you will run into a big problem. But don't blame greed, blame those distorted market signals then didn't allow companies to see a problem earlier.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If we could find endless resources on the moon then why couldn't we continue as we are? In fact, we can assume that advances in technology give us nearly an infinite supply of energy. So why do we need to worry as long as we pay the market price for energy right now?
    Because there are at least a handful of other areas where we are heading for disasters. Our current way of living cannot last, even if we have ifinete amounts of energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    None of these things are bad unless you distort market signals. When you do that, then yes, you will run into a big problem. But don't blame greed, blame those distorted market signals then didn't allow companies to see a problem earlier.
    The whole market is wrong, incorrect. Most of humanity is using their energy on worthless things, while worthwhile long term important things are completely not cared about. Our whole psyche is wrong, and thats not ONLY because of capitalism, but also because of politics, human nature(which proven to be able to change), social factors and so fourth.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Because there are at least a handful of other areas where we are heading for disasters. Our current way of living cannot last, even if we have ifinete amounts of energy.
    Why?

    The whole market is wrong, incorrect. Most of humanity is using their energy on worthless things, while worthwhile long term important things are completely not cared about. Our whole psyche is wrong, and thats not ONLY because of capitalism, but also because of politics, human nature(which proven to be able to change), social factors and so fourth.
    So what? They're only doing that because energy is relatively cheap to them, so why should they care? We're not going to run out of energy any time soon.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    A lot of countries do have problems, not only the US. I think US would need a correction, but nothing like what they will experience in Europe, especially southern Europe. Greece got a debt crisis. Portugal still has a slow growth even though they have the lowest GDP in the whole western Europe. Spain has an unemployment of 20%. Italy has a ridiculous low growth. Germany and France is performing poorly and they all have a huge demographic crisis because their fertility rates are so low, which will in the next 10-20 years decrease their working age population considerably.

    Even worse, millions of uneducated immigrants (most Muslims) are entering Europe each year and will cause conflict, crime and also reduce their productivity. Although it will reduce their demographic problem in the short term, but cause a lot more trouble in the long term. However, people in those countries ignores all of their problems, and the first step to a solution is to acknowledge your own problems. How did people in Greece react to spending cuts because of their huge deficit? Revolts and strikes. Similar with Iceland.
    Last edited by Camlon; 01-17-10 at 10:18 PM.

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    In that case, we're f'in screwed.
    Yes, we are, but most of us are unaware of it, and frankly don't give a **** as long as we have the latest technology fix and psychotropic drugs.

  9. #19
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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    A lot of countries do have problems, not only the US. I think US would need a correction, but nothing like what they will experience in Europe, especially southern Europe. Greece got a debt crisis. Portugal still has a slow growth even though they have the lowest GDP in the whole western Europe. Spain has an unemployment of 20%. Italy has a ridiculous low growth. Germany and France is performing poorly and they all have a huge demographic crisis because their fertility rates are so low, which will in the next 10-20 years decrease their working age population considerably.
    Wrong! On some points. Germany and France is performing well above average, and they are performing best in the world when it comes to non speculative sectors, in which they also perform rather well. If you take a deep look into the economies of the world, France for example is the most solidly anchored diverse, stable and most reliable economy. Even with the financial crisis, the French economy was almost untouched compared with other ones. French companies are incredibly well capitalized and have huge sales compared to US and UK counterparts who thrive mostly on artificial market value. Germany have the wealthiest companies in the world and the best long term prospect, even with a big dip in their exports. Germany has the broadest high tech economy in the world behind Japan.

    Spain has the most solidly driven companies in the world, with the most potential and the best outlooks. Spanish companies are wildly buying up companies across the world during the financial crisis, which only hit TWO sectors in Spain, tourism and contruction. Those sectors account for a ridicilous big part of the economy, and Spain therefor look far worse than it is. In the other sectors its faring much better than most countries.


    I am far more pessimistic for the US and the UK. And far more pessimistic for north America as a whole than Europe..
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 01-18-10 at 05:20 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Enourmous amounts of hidden state debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Wrong! On some points. Germany and France is performing well above average, and they are performing best in the world when it comes to non speculative sectors, in which they also perform rather well. If you take a deep look into the economies of the world, France for example is the most solidly anchored diverse, stable and most reliable economy. Even with the financial crisis, the French economy was almost untouched compared with other ones. French companies are incredibly well capitalized and have huge sales compared to US and UK counterparts who thrive mostly on artificial market value. Germany have the wealthiest companies in the world and the best long term prospect, even with a big dip in their exports. Germany has the broadest high tech economy in the world behind Japan.

    Spain has the most solidly driven companies in the world, with the most potential and the best outlooks. Spanish companies are wildly buying up companies across the world during the financial crisis, which only hit TWO sectors in Spain, tourism and contruction. Those sectors account for a ridicilous big part of the economy, and Spain therefor look far worse than it is. In the other sectors its faring much better than most countries.


    I am far more pessimistic for the US and the UK. And far more pessimistic for north America as a whole than Europe..
    The numbers don't add. Both Germany and France have a low GDP and still have a slow economic growth. Their productivity increase is also low. This is not a good performing industry. It doesn't matter if France ddn't get hit that bad by the economic crisis. (Germany did) Its a crisis. You recover from crisis, and the reality is. Europe as a whole did much worse in this crisis even though it was U.S. problem originally.

    They certinally don't have good firms (source, please and I want statistics), because then they wouldn't have that slow economic growth. Spain haven't had unemployment under 10% for 10-15 years. Germany may still have a lot of old firms, but they do badly and that's why Germany also does badly. Iceland wildly bought up overseas firms and guess what, they are now in a debt crisis because they borrow to be able to buy up overseas firms. Spain has a current account defecit which is 10% of GDP, hence they are doing the same . It's not sustainable.

    However, you forgot some of their problems. Their demographic problem. Many of the countries (Spain, Germany, Italy, Greece) have a fertility rate of 1.3. Do you think that's sustainable? Their immigration problem. Immigration is not working at all, and they are often unemployed or work low skilled jobs. Many of them turn to crime, and extremism. They work too litle. People work less hours per year and the pension age is often below 60 years. Their inability to change is not helping them and we can see what happends in Greece and Iceland. Instead of dong what's neccesary, they start revolting.

    These problems are mostly future problems, and they allready have slow economic growth and low GDP. How can Europe be in a good position, I think is mostly wishful thinking, because it certinally isn't based on evidence.
    Last edited by Camlon; 01-19-10 at 11:33 AM.

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