View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #721
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The variations have changed, not the purpose. Everywhere you go on Earth, marriage is about socializing children. This applies to each of your examples.
    No, it's not. Thousands of people get married every year just in the U.S. with absolutely no intention, or ability, to have children.

    If you want to call that a "variation" fine. Those are still legally valid, legitimate marriages.

    Many people choose to marry for purposes other than children. I'd say virtually all support the right to do that. So saying "marriage is only for children" simply isn't true today. You can say "marriage ought to be only for children" if you like.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, it's not. Thousands of people get married every year just in the U.S. with absolutely no intention, or ability, to have children.

    If you want to call that a "variation" fine. Those are still legally valid, legitimate marriages.

    Many people choose to marry for purposes other than children. I'd say virtually all support the right to do that. So saying "marriage is only for children" simply isn't true today. You can say "marriage ought to be only for children" if you like.
    There has always been the counter-culture element, yet they haven't changed the purpose of marriage either.

  3. #723
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There has always been the counter-culture element, yet they haven't changed the purpose of marriage either.
    The purpose of marriage has changed. It wasn't "counter-culture" people either. It was mostly older people remarrying after their spouses died.

    You didn't answer my question about whether you have parents or grandparents who might remarry. Perhaps some already have. Be sure to condemn their abuse of marriage.

  4. #724
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There has always been the counter-culture element, yet they haven't changed the purpose of marriage either.
    Where are you getting this "purpose of marriage" argument? Even the Bible doesn't say that the purpose of marriage is children. Even history or tradition doesn't say the sole purpose of marriage is children because marriage was primarily economic until it was accepted as a spiritual institution.

    Frankly, the whole "marriage is only about children" argument is entirely your opinion.

  5. #725
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There has always been the counter-culture element, yet they haven't changed the purpose of marriage either.
    Does it really matter all that much what the fundamental purpose of marriage really is in the gay marriage debate? When all is said and done, gay marriage will not affect that fundamental purpose any more than childless couples or older couples have ever done.

    What does is matter if a minority of people who get married will never have children? It doesn't seem to have made any difference so far.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The purpose of marriage has changed.
    Clearly it hasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You didn't answer my question about whether you have parents or grandparents who might remarry. Perhaps some already have. Be sure to condemn their abuse of marriage.
    Ahh yes, well you're asking about me specifically so let's be clear up front that I have no empirical data establishing myself or my family as a representative sample of the greater population. You are asking for anecdote, which I'm happy to give, but let's keep in mind that this is just anecdote.

    My parents divorced when I was about 7. My father remarried for the expressed purpose of reforming the family (it had the opposite effect, in practice). My mother never re-married because she has always placed her personal freedom above anything which made her feel tied down. The only exception to that was her job, N.U.M.M.I....which thanks to Obama will be closing forever in March (hows that unemployment rate doing?)...hopefully I can convince her to move to SD, but I digress.

    Of the grandparent's I'm familiar with: my mother's parents divorced when my mother was a teen. My grandfather had a gambling habit which my grandmother finally couldn't live with any longer. Their divorce was sad but civil. My grandfather remand very much active in the family, tending the family home even though he had moved out with the divorce, being present for family events, and it was easy to see that my grandparents still had affection for each other.

    At the moment of his death he was surrounded by his children holding his hand, laying on bed he shared with his wife, in the family home everyone grew up in. I'm sure my grandmother would have been there were it not for very advanced alzheimers...frankly the doctors don't know how she's still alive.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-22-10 at 01:03 AM.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Does it really matter all that much what the fundamental purpose of marriage really is in the gay marriage debate? When all is said and done, gay marriage will not affect that fundamental purpose any more than childless couples or older couples have ever done.

    What does is matter if a minority of people who get married will never have children? It doesn't seem to have made any difference so far.
    Those other couples have raised the divorce rate to 50%.

    "Gays will also have a 50% divorce rate" is not a supporting argument to folks like myself who don't want a 50% divorce rate to begin with.

    The divorce rate is the problem, gay marriage needs to show how it's part of the solution.

    When, and I do argue that it's a matter of "when" and not "if", we are having this debate over polygamy, I will hold them to the same standard.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-22-10 at 01:11 AM.

  8. #728
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The variations have changed, not the purpose. Everywhere you go on Earth, marriage is about socializing children. This applies to each of your examples.
    Yeah, except when it's not.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Where are you getting this "purpose of marriage" argument?
    Half.com / Books / Sociology Now

    Chapter 2.

    You could Google "cultural universal".

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Even the Bible doesn't say that the purpose of marriage is children. Even history or tradition doesn't say the sole purpose of marriage is children because marriage was primarily economic until it was accepted as a spiritual institution.

    Frankly, the whole "marriage is only about children" argument is entirely your opinion.
    Allow me to link the post I chimed in with this evening....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So I'm attending the beginning of a 100 level sociology class, and the instructor who teaches this subject at the 400 level, reaches the topic of cultural universal.

    To periphrasis, he tells us that the reason all societies have "marriage" is to acknowledge a pair bond, to let everyone know that a couple has joined their lives and operate by special rules, and that everyone should honor this union because now the couple's main function is to socialize children. He then gave a few examples of how marriage serves this same function in very different cultures around the globe before moving on to other elements every society has, like funerals.


    So before anyone tries to play the religion card, this is sociology, a science, not a religion, not my subjective personal opinion on morality......science and cultural universal.


    ****
    Talk about validation.

    Marriage is about raising children, not in supporting just whatever sort of relationship you feel like. If you have no intention of raising children, you therefore have no business getting married.

    If gay 'marriage is principally about socializing children, then I'm for gay marriage. If gay marriage is principally about anything other than socializing children, such as "equality" or "rights" or some other bull**** nonsense, then I'm against it.

    *Note: I would not then be against gays haveing relationships, living together and whatnot. I would then be against gays having access to marriage, even civil unions.

  10. #730
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Those other couples have raised the divorce rate to 50%.
    Are you serious? I want to see your evidence to support such a ludicrous statement.

    What raised the divorce rate was no fault divorce and women leaving home to work. That is a sociological fact that nobody even disputes. To hear someone arguing that elderly couples and childless couples marrying had anything to do with increasing the divorce rate is insane.

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