View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #61
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I never claimed they don't change.
    Yes you do, by stating that marriage can't change. You've said it's "taken". I said the meaning has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Because a marriage is between a man and a woman, and a civil union or (___insert terminology here___) is between a man/man or woman/woman.
    Definitions change. Marriage is the union between two people regardless of sexual orientation as the right to contract shall not be infringed upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I've actually done the direct opposite, I've said they deserve all of the benefits of a heterosexual married couple, without the term "marriage".
    No, in fact you haven't. It's some messed up, skewed view to make believe that you're treating people equal. Words change, institutions change, meanings change. Marriage is evolving to include more than just heterosexual couples. There's nothing wrong with that. Dark ages thinking is no longer required, we need to understand the mobile dynamics of society and the needs of the people. There is no legitimate reason to bar same sex couples from being married. None what so ever. It's either a religious or bigot argument which says they can't. Adhering to archaic architecture is not how humans do things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I would prevent a same sex couple from having a contract that states it's a "marriage", absolutely.
    Thus you would engage in tyranny against the minority. You would actively prevent one's right to exercise contract because of some bigotry or outdated notion of "marriage". Evolve or die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Now, any other ludicrous accusations you'd like to levy? Lesse... I'm dumb, I'm treating gay couples as second class citizens (ie. oppressing), I'm preventing gays from exercising their right - which, marriage is not a right by the way... anything else? Is "honkey" coming next or maybe "bigot"??
    it's not ludicrous as you've demonstrated it true

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Get over the word, pick a better one. Marriage is taken.
    Get over the word. Marriage is changing to become more encompassing. Get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Since it's a government contract, government gets to define the words used in that contract and were I part of the government, the word would not change. Words may change over time, but now is not the time.
    Rather fascist eh? Government does not get to define the words, the People define it within the rights and liberties of all. Words change, now is the time and the place to accept the concept of marriage has expanded to include more people.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #62
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What the government recognizes and defines as "marriage" certainly is.
    The government changing what words used by the government mean, especially in regards to what it refers to, isn't very unusual.

    Why can the word marriage for the government not be changed? Why SHOULD it not be changed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Because a marriage is between a man and a woman, and a civil union or (___insert terminology here___) is between a man/man or woman/woman.
    Why? What is the reason to have two different names for two actions that result in the exact same benefits under the government.

    Why?

    Give a reason.

    Why can words, both in government and not in government, can change meaning...but this one can't.

    GIVE A REASON

  3. #63
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What the government recognizes and defines as "marriage" certainly is.
    The government changing what words used by the government mean, especially in regards to what it refers to, isn't very unusual.

    Why can the word marriage for the government not be changed? Why SHOULD it not be changed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Because a marriage is between a man and a woman, and a civil union or (___insert terminology here___) is between a man/man or woman/woman.
    Why? What is the reason to have two different names for two actions that result in the exact same benefits under the government.

    Why?

    Give a reason.

    Why can words, both in government and not in government, can change meaning...but this one can't.

    Give us a reason other than "its just not time for it to change". That's not a reason, that's a statement. A reason would be saying WHY its not time for it to change.

  4. #64
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I never claimed they don't change.
    Yes you do, by stating that marriage can't change. You've said it's "taken". I said the meaning has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Because a marriage is between a man and a woman, and a civil union or (___insert terminology here___) is between a man/man or woman/woman.
    Definitions change. Marriage is the union between two people regardless of sexual orientation as the right to contract shall not be infringed upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I've actually done the direct opposite, I've said they deserve all of the benefits of a heterosexual married couple, without the term "marriage".
    No, in fact you haven't. It's some messed up, skewed view to make believe that you're treating people equal. Words change, institutions change, meanings change. Marriage is evolving to include more than just heterosexual couples. There's nothing wrong with that. Dark ages thinking is no longer required, we need to understand the mobile dynamics of society and the needs of the people. There is no legitimate reason to bar same sex couples from being married. None what so ever. It's either a religious or bigot argument which says they can't. Adhering to archaic architecture is not how humans do things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I would prevent a same sex couple from having a contract that states it's a "marriage", absolutely.
    Thus you would engage in tyranny against the minority. You would actively prevent one's right to exercise contract because of some bigotry or outdated notion of "marriage". Evolve or die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Now, any other ludicrous accusations you'd like to levy? Lesse... I'm dumb, I'm treating gay couples as second class citizens (ie. oppressing), I'm preventing gays from exercising their right - which, marriage is not a right by the way... anything else? Is "honkey" coming next or maybe "bigot"??
    it's not ludicrous as you've demonstrated it true

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Get over the word, pick a better one. Marriage is taken.
    Get over the word. Marriage is changing to become more encompassing. Get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Since it's a government contract, government gets to define the words used in that contract and were I part of the government, the word would not change. Words may change over time, but now is not the time.
    Rather fascist eh? I find it funny how many "conservatives" turn to government sponsored fascism as soon as things don't go their way. It's a good way to get shot. Government does not get to define the words, the People define it within the rights and liberties of all. In fact, that is a charge of the government. They cannot define things in a way which infringes upon the rights and liberties of the minority. And keeping the archaic meaning of the word does just that; it infringes upon the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. ANd that's not proper government, it is forbidden from doing that. Words change, now is the time and the place to accept the concept of marriage has expanded to include more people.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-14-10 at 02:43 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #65
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes you do, by stating that marriage can't change. You've said it's "taken". I said the meaning has changed.
    Nice logical fallacy - so if one word cannot change, then no words can change - especially as quickly as you want them to. So you've gone from ad hominem to now logical fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Definitions change. Marriage is the union between two people regardless of sexual orientation as the right to contract shall not be infringed upon.
    Apparently you and a minority of people think so. Government does not and nor do I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Adhering to archaic architecture is not how humans do things.
    In fact, traditions are EXACTLY how humans do things. If what you say was true, traditions would not exist, and people would drop things as quickly as they adopt new things. That doesn't happen in real life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Thus you would engage in tyranny against the minority. You would actively prevent one's right to exercise contract because of some bigotry or outdated notion of "marriage". Evolve or die.
    Wow, pulling out the "tyranny" now? LOL

    Tell you what, just pass a law then to abolish marriage for everyone. Sure, that'll work.

    Ignorance like the opinion you have is a joke. Pick a new word.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Rather fascist eh? Government does not get to define the words, the People define it within the rights and liberties of all. In fact, that is a charge of the government. They cannot define things in a way which infringes upon the rights and liberties of the minority. And keeping the archaic meaning of the word does just that; it infringes upon the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. ANd that's not proper government, it is forbidden from doing that. Words change, now is the time and the place to accept the concept of marriage has expanded to include more people.
    Sure fascist works - Like I care what you call me. Look, it's not going to change. Just because you don't find value in traditions, history and society doesn't mean everyone else has to jump on the "what's new" bandwagon... marriage is between a man and woman. Obama says so, I say so, most local governments say so as do the states. You want something new, go call it whatever you want, officially it stays as is. And if evolving requires me to be what you think it should be, I'd much rather be dead and miss the abortion that is your viewpoint.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #66
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Ah, but I'm an idiot which makes me less equal than others again.
    In fact, mental disability is a protected class, so yo are actually more equal than I.

    Now if you were a mentally disabled gay, then we might be equal, but in different ways.

    You would turn to your gay lover and call him your husband, but we who know how to live your life better than you would turn to each other and say "look at the silly idiot, calling another man his spouse, he's so cute".

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Why? What is the reason to have two different names for two actions that result in the exact same benefits under the government.
    Good point, we should eliminate Domestic Partnership and be don with this issue.

  8. #68
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Good point, we should eliminate Domestic Partnership and be don with this issue.
    Sure, eliminate domestic partnership and allow two consenting adults to be married and you can be done with it.

    great point jerry!

  9. #69
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Sure, eliminate domestic partnership and allow two consenting adults to be married and you can be done with it.

    great point jerry!
    Daydreaming is fun isn't it?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #70
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In fact, mental disability is a protected class, so yo are actually more equal than I.
    If you really believed this, it would be easy to make yourself so privileged. Multiple self-inflicted concussions should do it.

    Before you wail about someone else having it better than you do, ask if you'd switch places with them. If you can honestly say you would, you might have a point.

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