View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #631
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Wasn't hard to search up. I suggest pages 4 to 10 or so.



    http://www.debatepolitics.com/church...xuality-4.html
    Okay Goshin, since you deigned to humour us "noobs" and performed the trivial search, I have deigned to read the thread. It was interesting, but it really raised more questions than it answered for me; and it certainly didn't answer the question I've been asking repeatedly in this thread, about why homosexuality, above all else, is singled out as a paradigm, immutable law. It seems to me that the decisions about which OT laws can be safely ignored and which have to be adhered to strictly, were somewhat arbitrary. At the very least, they are still highly ambiguous and open to interpretation. Just like everything else in the bible really.

    One thing that has occurred to me, though, whilst reading what you and Blackdog have been saying about the covenant* rescinding many of the old laws: doesn't this interpretation contradict Jesus' own words? He said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:17-18

    * It's been many years since I was forced into bible studies during my schooling, so I am a very rusty, but my recollection of covenants was that they were all from the OT, so I have tried to find information on this one you and Blackdog have both mentioned, but I can't find anything definitive. Could you point me to some information on it please?
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  2. #632
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    Okay Goshin, since you deigned to humour us "noobs" and performed the trivial search, I have deigned to read the thread. It was interesting, but it really raised more questions than it answered for me; and it certainly didn't answer the question I've been asking repeatedly in this thread, about why homosexuality, above all else, is singled out as a paradigm, immutable law. It seems to me that the decisions about which OT laws can be safely ignored and which have to be adhered to strictly, were somewhat arbitrary. At the very least, they are still highly ambiguous and open to interpretation. Just like everything else in the bible really.
    How many times do we have to repeat the same things over and over again? From an earlier post #298...

    "To bad the OT laws do not apply to modern Gentiles.

    That was Gods laws for the Israelites.
    " - http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...-marry-30.html

    This is a really basic concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    One thing that has occurred to me, though, whilst reading what you and Blackdog have been saying about the covenant* rescinding many of the old laws: doesn't this interpretation contradict Jesus' own words? He said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:17-18
    This is almost the same question you asked above, and it was also already answered #344...

    "Romans 1:26-27 "For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

    No use of the word arsenokoitēs which is the word he is referring to in Greek.
    " - http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...-marry-35.html

    Now if you look at the old law and reference it with the new laws, you can see a trend here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    * It's been many years since I was forced into bible studies during my schooling, so I am a very rusty, but my recollection of covenants was that they were all from the OT, so I have tried to find information on this one you and Blackdog have both mentioned, but I can't find anything definitive. Could you point me to some information on it please?
    It's called Jesus dieing on the cross.

    You are on your own for the rest. Read for yourself.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-21-10 at 09:35 PM.
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  3. #633
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    All these questions were raised, repeatedly, and explained (repeatedly) in the thread I linked to.

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  4. #634
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    WTF is up with the poll results? Polls here never get 180 votes, not to mention 120 anti-gay marriage votes. Plus the numbers are unlikely well-rounded.

  5. #635
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    How many times do we have to repeat the same things over and over again? From an earlier post #298...

    "To bad the OT laws do not apply to modern Gentiles.

    That was Gods laws for the Israelites.
    " - http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...-marry-30.html

    This is a really basic concept.
    That doesn't answer anything! I've asked why different OT laws are given greater credence than others by Christians and your reply is that the OT laws only apply to Israelites. That's drivel... it explains nothing!



    This is almost the same question you asked above, and it was also already answered #344...

    "Romans 1:26-27 "For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

    No use of the word arsenokoitēs which is the word he is referring to in Greek.
    " - http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...-marry-35.html

    Now if you look at the old law and reference it with the new laws, you can see a trend here.
    New laws? You mean the interpretation of Pauline epistles of course, but that's the crux of it. The combination of Paul's letters and OT laws makes certain Christians' views on homosexuality intransigent, but the combination of Jesus saying he hasn't come to abolish the old laws and the OT laws in question, gets conveniently overlooked. Again, you haven't answered anything.



    It's called Jesus dieing on the cross.

    You are on your own for the rest. Read for yourself.
    Yes, I've been advised that this "covenant" idea is an evangelical Protestant interpretation of NT scripture, which is why it didn't mean a great deal to me. The Jesus sacrifice was never referred to as a covenant, that I remember, in my religious education.
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  6. #636
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    WTF is up with the poll results? Polls here never get 180 votes, not to mention 120 anti-gay marriage votes. Plus the numbers are unlikely well-rounded.
    With all respect to CC I believe some of our left wing friends are stuffing the ballots...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  7. #637
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by antagony View Post
    that doesn't answer anything! I've asked why different ot laws are given greater credence than others by christians and your reply is that the ot laws only apply to israelites. That's drivel... It explains nothing!
    +1,000,000

  8. #638
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    That doesn't answer anything! I've asked why different OT laws are given greater credence than others by Christians and your reply is that the OT laws only apply to Israelites. That's drivel... it explains nothing!
    It isn't just OT law. It is NT commandment. If you had read pages 4 to 10 of the thread in question, you should have come across the fact that there are at least four places in the New Testament that sharply condemn homosexuality. These were listed and discussed, including parsing of the original Greek and historical context.


    New laws? You mean the interpretation of Pauline epistles of course, but that's the crux of it. The combination of Paul's letters and OT laws makes certain Christians' views on homosexuality intransigent, but the combination of Jesus saying he hasn't come to abolish the old laws and the OT laws in question, gets conveniently overlooked. Again, you haven't answered anything.


    Yes, I've been advised that this "covenant" idea is an evangelical Protestant interpretation of NT scripture, which is why it didn't mean a great deal to me. The Jesus sacrifice was never referred to as a covenant, that I remember, in my religious education.
    In the book of Acts, the apostles (not just Paul, Peter and others) determined that Gentile Christians were not required to keep OT law, other than a few specific enumerated items. This was also discussed at length in the thread I linked to. The reason is that the purpose of OT Law is to show everyone the truth: that all have sinned. New Testament Grace is the "cure".
    The Law does indeed still exist... those who decline to accept Grace are subject to its judgement.
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-21-10 at 10:37 PM.

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  9. #639
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    That doesn't answer anything! I've asked why different OT laws are given greater credence than others by Christians and your reply is that the OT laws only apply to Israelites. That's drivel... it explains nothing!
    They don't unless they are mentioned in the NT. Then they are nothing more than AS I SAID BEFORE a good reference for understanding what God expects.

    I guess that is to complicated for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    New laws? You mean the interpretation of Pauline epistles of course, but that's the crux of it. The combination of Paul's letters and OT laws makes certain Christians' views on homosexuality intransigent, but the combination of Jesus saying he hasn't come to abolish the old laws and the OT laws in question, gets conveniently overlooked. Again, you haven't answered anything.
    Only because you don't want to see the answer. It is right in front of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    Yes, I've been advised that this "covenant" idea is an evangelical Protestant interpretation of NT scripture, which is why it didn't mean a great deal to me. The Jesus sacrifice was never referred to as a covenant, that I remember, in my religious education.
    Welcome to the world of Catholicism.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-21-10 at 10:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #640
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It isn't just OT law. It is NT commandment.
    But that wasn't the question.

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