View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #571
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Actually it is good enough. I don't care if you understand my reasoning or not. So I don't feel the need to explain myself.

    All you need to know is...

    #1 I do not support Gay marraige.
    #2 My religion is part of the reason.
    #3 Your opinion of my religion is irrelevant to this matter.

    I can't make it any more simple than that.



    It becomes unreasonable when I have already explained why. If people don't want to respect that it is OK. In the end I don't need to explain how or why my religion says this. The Bible is available to anyone who would like to read it.



    Is that what this is about to you? Who wins an argument?

    Well You win! Yea we are done here, lol.
    Well why are you here then? If you can't be bothered to explain yourself--and no, you haven't done so already--then what is the point of anyone debating with you?

    And it really isn't good enough. It's a pathetic cop out to say it's too complicated to understand for anyone who hasn't studied as much as you have--notwithstanding that you have no idea how much the people you disparage as ignorant have studied. But if that's the way you want to play, then fair enough. No one can force you to justify your beliefs if you don't want to. Just as long as you realise that you won't be taken seriously until you at least try.
    -Ant

    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
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  2. #572
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    The problem with this argument is that it applies equally to every other problem/situation/disagreement one might have on an internet forum. It's an argument against participating in these discussions at all.
    No it does not. We have had plenty of debates that do not involve someone asking to explain the tenants of Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    You get the same questions when you haven't provided answers. And the simple fact is that if you work this hard to avoid articulating your position, you probably don't understand it that well yourself.
    Calling me ignorant of the Bible is still calling me ignorant.
    If you actually went through the thread you would know I answered many MANY of the questions. You don't want answers, you want ammunition. Please don't play stupid with me.

    I did not say you were ignorant. I said you don't know much about it and it is true as AGAIN you have shown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    I don't mind it really--I DO mind using that tactic as a way to avoid seeing your ideas challenged.
    You are not challenging my idea's, you as are others are trying to challenge my faith, and what I have faith in.

    You want me to change the accepted interpretations of the Bible to fit your world view. Based on your limited knowledge of what is written in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Hard as it is for you to understand this, the rest of us feel the same way about you.
    Except I am the only one. Makes a huge difference. This is exactly the reason people of faith refuse to debate about it. You don't want to discuss the issues involved, you want to poke holes in Christianity, again with limited and carefully picked words from the Bible. You don't even try to understand what I am saying, you just want to say I am wrong, period.

    So you are not welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Then you are putting your faith in the men whom you've trusted to interpret, not in the text itself.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    You say that a lot, but I don't think you can let someone else get the last word on this, can you?
    I could say the same about you? So what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #573
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    This thread is why we have a government that is supposed to keep out of religion, and religion out of government.

  4. #574
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    Well why are you here then? If you can't be bothered to explain yourself--and no, you haven't done so already--then what is the point of anyone debating with you?
    Notice the amount of thanks I have along with the amount of posts? The fact I have been here over a year as well?

    Obviously I can and do debate, and I am good at it.

    Your attempt to somehow goad me are really lame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    And it really isn't good enough.
    Yes, it is. This debate has nothing to do with my faith or why I believe the way I do. It is supposed to be about gay marraige are you for or against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    It's a pathetic cop out to say it's too complicated to understand for anyone who hasn't studied as much as you have--notwithstanding that you have no idea how much the people you disparage as ignorant have studied.
    It is not to complicated to understand, I never said such a thing. I said it is to complicated to explain. We mite as well hold a class on Philosophy or comparative religions. You seem to think I am under some kind of obligation to teach you about my faith and religion. I hate to inform you I am not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    But if that's the way you want to play, then fair enough. No one can force you to justify your beliefs if you don't want to. Just as long as you realise that you won't be taken seriously until you at least try.
    If I was not taken seriously, this thread would not be so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Save the rant
    I do not rant. That is again dishonest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #575
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No it does not. We have had plenty of debates that do not involve someone asking to explain the tenants of Christianity.
    The "tenants of Christianity" are pretty simple: Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Things get complicated only when people try to find ways to justify their unloving actions.
    If you actually went through the thread you would know I answered many MANY of the questions. You don't want answers, you want ammunition. Please don't play stupid with me.
    I'm not--that's the farthest thing from what I'm doing.
    I did not say you were ignorant. I said you don't know much about it and it is true as AGAIN you have shown.
    Umm...ignorant means "not knowing."
    You are not challenging my idea's, you as are others are trying to challenge my faith, and what I have faith in.
    And your faith is thus unassailable? Does that mean if I had faith in little green men from Borkenstad I could count on you not to question me about it? Your faith will go unchallenged when you sit in a room alone or with like-minded people. Everywhere else, it's fair game--particularly when you're using to justify a position on public policy.
    You want me to change the accepted interpretations of the Bible to fit your world view. Based on your limited knowledge of what is written in it.
    Actually, I want for us to compare notes. If my knowledge is so limited, that shouldn't be scary at all.
    Except I am the only one. Makes a huge difference. This is exactly the reason people of faith refuse to debate about it. You don't want to discuss the issues involved, you want to poke holes in Christianity, again with limited and carefully picked words from the Bible. You don't even try to understand what I am saying, you just want to say I am wrong, period.
    You have no idea what I want since you've pretty much refused to engage with me. You ASSUME you understand my mind when you haven't given my arguments even a moment's though. "People of faith" (and I count myself one of them) don't need to discuss their beliefs--until they use those beliefs to determine the course of other people's lives.
    I could say the same about you? So what?
    I'm not the one trying to end the conversation.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Notice the amount of thanks I have along with the amount of posts? The fact I have been here over a year as well?

    Obviously I can and do debate, and I am good at it.

    Your attempt to somehow goad me are really lame.



    Yes, it is. This debate has nothing to do with my faith or why I believe the way I do. It is supposed to be about gay marraige are you for or against.



    It is not to complicated to understand, I never said such a thing. I said it is to complicated to explain. We mite as well hold a class on Philosophy or comparative religions. You seem to think I am under some kind of obligation to teach you about my faith and religion. I hate to inform you I am not.



    If I was not taken seriously, this thread would not be so long.


    Not my words.
    First of all, please edit your post and properly attribute the quotes to me rather than Rassales. Although I am in full agreement with him, he may not be particularly happy to have my words accredited to him.
    Oh and the final quote wasn't even mine!

    As for your comments:

    I don't regard the Thanks system as any indication of quality. There are a number of people here with Thanks coming out of their ears, but I wouldn't give them the time of day.

    I didn't say you can't debate, I merely asked what the point was if you're not prepared to explain yourself. Big difference.

    And I don't think you're under any obligation to "teach" anyone anything. But you are clearly reluctant to "explain" your position to me, so I don't care who else takes you seriously, until you do, I won't.
    Last edited by Antagony; 01-20-10 at 04:27 PM.
    -Ant

    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    -Voltaire

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    We have had plenty of debates that do not involve someone asking to explain the tenants of Christianity.
    I don't normally pull people up on their spelling or grammar, but this is a pet hate:

    "Tenants" are occupiers of rented accommodations. The principles you intended to mean are called "tenets."
    -Ant

    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    -Voltaire

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Antagony View Post
    There are a number of people here with Thanks coming out of their ears, but I wouldn't give them the time of day.
    Now I'll never get to work on time.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #579
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Nope, don't watn to tell you you suck. Want to tell you you are apparently ignorant of what "seperation of church and state" means.
    Well, if all I hear all the time is "God doesn't like it," then that's just what pops into my mind. I just want people to keep their religion and their beliefs out of other peoples' lives. I don't understand why that's so hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, they're not.
    Marriage as its defined in our law is not religious, let alone christian, so they're not being forced to abide by Christian rule.s
    Furthermore, marriage being between a man and a woman is not unique to simply Christianity, so again, no you can't say simply because that's the definition they're being forced to abide by Christian Rules.
    Even further, there are some agnostic and athiests that still believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, further showing that no, that notion is not simply Christian and thus it being law does not mean they're being forced to be Christian.
    Okay, why are you ****ing arguing with me if you don't even disagree with me?
    Fine, I'll just say I was wrong. Alright? Whatever. I don't give a ****. I'm so ****ing pissed off at this whole ****ing situation. People need to learn to just live and let live. That's the whole point in every ****ing thing I say.
    People feel the need to butt their way into things that don't affect them. It's idiotic.
    Whoever you are, whatever ****ing religion you follow, keep it to yourself. That's all I have to say to everyone. You don't have the ****ing right to impose your views on people who aren't ****ing doing anything.
    Is that ****ing clear enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then you shouldn't make comments like stating that if the term marriage remains as between a man and a woman its essentially forcing gay people to be Christians. OR, when someone informs you of the error of that, you should look into it or acknowledge it.
    Off the top of my head I believe Jews and Muslims also believe marriage is between one man and one woman.
    Yes, I'm acknowledging that I fail at religion. Yes, I will probably look into it sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Doesn't matter, not the argument I'm making. YOU stated that because there was a law on the books that happened to coincide with Christian thinking on the matter that somehow that is "forcing" people to essentially be Christian. If that was the case then all those things above ALSO coincide with Christian thinking and thus would apply also.
    Well, it's the argument I'm making. I've already stated that I know basically nothing of religion.
    Murder harms people.
    Adultery harms people.
    Thievery harms people.
    Homosexuality does not harm people.
    Can you prove me wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, you don't apparently know what seperation of church and state is. You can "believe" we don't all you want, that doesn't make it true. People voting based on their religious beliefs does not have anything to do with Seperation of Church and State.
    Here, I'll help you.
    Point me out the law where the government establishes a state religion, mandates a following of religion, or forbids a following of religion.
    I'll wait.
    People voting based on their religious beliefs counts to me. I just want people to get a ****ing life of their own and stay out of everyone else's.
    You know I won't find a law that states that. My point is that I want people of religion and bigotry to separate themselves from other people.
    Do they not have anything better to do than to make people unhappy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Second, that's extremely narrow minded of you. I'm not even against gay marriage but I'm not so bigoted against anyone that dares disagree with me that I hyper stereotype them. Do you honestly believe 100% of non-religious people either agree with you or are bigots? Here's a few off the top of my head:
    Yes, that is what I honestly believe.
    Again, why did you even bother responding to me if you're on my side?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    1. Believing the government interest in marriage is related to the raising of a family and believing a traditional family offers the best chance for a child
    It's silly to think that heterosexual parents do a better job than homosexual ones. As long as it's a loving household, the child will do just fine. The parents' sexual preferences don't have any effect on the child.
    Except for when they get into school, they might be teased if the other kids find out about it. But kids will always find ways to tease each other. It doesn't mean anything and if they have a nice, stable home to go back to, it won't matter to them, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    2. Someone who is a staunch traditionalist, that realizes while perhaps "Seperate but equal" the attempt to use that phrase to harken back to the civil rights age is a bit dishonest as at those times the facilities/benefits under a different name were actually worse which would be different from this case where everything else would literally be equal.
    Wow, this was a little confusing to read. But anyways, no, it's not dishonest because this is almost exactly the same. Lots of people didn't want women to vote or do anything else for ****ing stupid reasons during the Women's Rights Movement. Lots of people didn't want black people to vote or do anything else for ****ing stupid reasons during the Civil Rights Movement. This is now the Gay Rights Movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    3. Someone that believes the government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all and thus is against adding more to it, thus making it harder to remove
    What? Adding more to it? Like actually giving everyone the right to be married?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Are they great reasons? No. But at times some of the reasons people who want it give also aren't great. But they're at least legitimate opinions that aren't simply "bigotry". Lest you want to simply say "bigotry" is anyone that disagree's with you which seems to be the MO here.
    I'd like to hear some of the reasons that are for gay marriage that "aren't great."
    Also, the reasons on my side of the argument are much better than the other side. There's so many...
    If my beliefs are stemming from the desire to help a group of people who are discriminated against for no ****ing reason, then I'd say that anyone who disagrees is either a bigot, or just religious. I don't have a problem with religious people. I just believe that they shouldn't try and force it on other people.
    As for bigots, they're just intolerant and that pisses me off. They don't care about anyone but themselves.
    Nobody has the right to judge anyone, so why not just let them get married. They're not bad people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Gotcha, so if they're religious and would vote based on their morals you don't want them to vote. Got it, you're intolerant to religious people. They have as much right to vote based on their views, morals, and philosophies as you or anyone else.
    Why are you being like this?
    I'm saying that if they're trying to force their views and moral compass on to other people, it's wrong. It sucks that they can vote based on that. They don't understand that homosexuals are doing nothing wrong.
    It's like they've never heard, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
    They wouldn't like it if another religious group came along with their book and started telling them they were wrong for being whatever skin color they are according to their bible.
    It's only because they're in the majority that this is happening.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
    -Martin Luther King, Jr


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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    I really want everyone to know that I'm not intolerant of religious people. Look, I was talking to my mother earlier this morning and we ended up discussing these forums. She always asks me why I keep coming on here because it just makes me so angry. I don't know why.
    Anyways, she grew up religious. My grandfather was the pastor of their church. They had to always be obedient and they had no mind-set of their own. This is what she told me.
    She eventually developed her own opinions and thinks for herself. She told me that she can relate to the religious people on these forums. She can understand where they're coming from. It's all fear-based.
    She said you can't let it rule your life. You have to think for yourself.
    That's all.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
    -Martin Luther King, Jr


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