View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #491
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Sorry to hear that. Are you going to be all right???
    No worries, I'm a tough ole Bird. A wooden Indian broke my fall. hahahahha
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

  2. #492
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Where are you commanded to do that? It's one thing for you to read the scriptures and determine that you believe that homosexuality is wrong (for you). It's another thing, entirely, for you to take it upon yourself to judge what other people do. A story about specks and logs comes to mind.
    It's actually from St. Augustine. His letter 211 (c. 424) contains the phrase Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum, which translates roughly as "With love for mankind and hatred of sins."

    This has nothing to do with sitting in judgment of anyone. I do however sit in judgment of the sin.

    Even the Devil can quote scripture out of context all day, and it means nothing.

    Now lets look at what Jesus said about sin...

    Matthew 18:7-9 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."

    Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I wonder if you spend an equal amount of time crusading to have infidelity & fornication banned, given that they are all equal acts in the eyes of God.
    Yes I do.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-19-10 at 11:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #493
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Funny thing about that "moral decline of society" thing--it's much easier to judge AFTER the fact than when you're in it. I'm reminded of Girolamo Savonarola, a leader against "moral decline" in his era. Turns out he was opposing the Renaissance!

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Funny thing about that "moral decline of society" thing--it's much easier to judge AFTER the fact than when you're in it. I'm reminded of Girolamo Savonarola, a leader against "moral decline" in his era. Turns out he was opposing the Renaissance!
    To many paintings of nasty Nakid People. tha shame.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Funny thing about that "moral decline of society" thing--it's much easier to judge AFTER the fact than when you're in it. I'm reminded of Girolamo Savonarola, a leader against "moral decline" in his era. Turns out he was opposing the Renaissance!
    He was trying to start a theocracy, HUGE difference.

    He was also by what I read not opposing the Renaissance. That is really a stretch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    He was trying to start a theocracy, HUGE difference.

    He was also by what I read not opposing the Renaissance. That is really a stretch.
    He certainly was. He opposed, for example, the new way of painting--because by making the Madonna look pretty and animated and real, painters were turning her into a WHORE (his words). He opposed the "new knowledge" (really the old knowledge of ancient Greek thinkers like Plato) because it was pagan.

    The Renaissance was marked by a belief that God wanted humans to make their world beautiful and plentiful--that human reason and creativity were God's crowning gifts to humanity. Savonarola insisted on preserving the medieval perspective--the only proper place for the human soul is in heaven, so anything that ties us to this world (including actions that make our time here more pleasant) is evil. Creating beauty and utility (particularly when an individual inventor or artist takes credit for it) is vanity.

  7. #497
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    He certainly was. He opposed, for example, the new way of painting--because by making the Madonna look pretty and animated and real, painters were turning her into a WHORE (his words). He opposed the "new knowledge" (really the old knowledge of ancient Greek thinkers like Plato) because it was pagan.
    As I stated I was just going by the small blurb you linked to. It says nothing about any of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    The Renaissance was marked by a belief that God wanted humans to make their world beautiful and plentiful--that human reason and creativity were God's crowning gifts to humanity.
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Savonarola insisted on preserving the medieval perspective--the only proper place for the human soul is in heaven, so anything that ties us to this world (including actions that make our time here more pleasant) is evil.
    He wanted a theocracy as I said, or at least that what it sounds like.

    I do not want nor does the Bible condone a theocracy of any type. The laws in the Bible are for our personal lives, not a governmental system to run a country. That being said, it does not mean our mortality cannot be reflected in our society or government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Creating beauty and utility (particularly when an individual inventor or artist takes credit for it) is vanity.
    Creating beauty in and of itself and taking credit is not vain. Bragging about it would turn it into vanity.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-20-10 at 12:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #498
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I do not want nor does the Bible condone a theocracy of any type. The laws in the Bible are for our personal lives, not a governmental system to run a country. That being said, it does not mean our mortality cannot be reflected in our society or government.
    And it is--American morality is based (I think) primarily on the sanctity of individual liberty and equality before the law. It's also secular, in that no sect or religion has a primary claim to influence our laws.
    Creating beauty in and of itself and taking credit is not vain.
    Christians did not always think so. For a very long period (and the earliest period) in Christian history, creating beauty was considered competing with God, and admiring man-made beauty was corrupting to the soul, since it distracted from the primary purpose of human existence, the heavenly reward.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    And it is--American morality is based (I think) primarily on the sanctity of individual liberty and equality before the law. It's also secular, in that no sect or religion has a primary claim to influence our laws.
    Christianity does have an effect on our laws simply because 70%+ of our nation is self proclaimed Christians.

    Even in our secular government, religion does have a say through voting.

    Of course this is also true for anyone here no matter what system of beliefs they follow. No one should be silenced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Christians did not always think so. For a very long period (and the earliest period) in Christian history, creating beauty was considered competing with God, and admiring man-made beauty was corrupting to the soul, since it distracted from the primary purpose of human existence, the heavenly reward.
    That is true, and it was perpetrated by a corrupt and controlling church of the time.

    I mean Christianity has done more then it's share of wrongs in Gods name. Even though the scripture did not condone it. The Crusades, Inquisition and the support of Nazi's during WWII. The holy church is no virgin, and this is exactly the reason Jesus had to die for us.

    What does any of this have to do with Gay marraige? I mean if you want to continue this, we should move it to the "Church and State" forum.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-20-10 at 12:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #500
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    What does any of this have to do with Gay marraige? I mean if you want to continue this, we should move it to the "Church and State" forum.
    I suppose. My point is this--at moments of great change, there are always people afraid of the next step, but after a time their descendants come to see those changes as right and good, even inevitable. This sort of watershed happens repeatedly throughout history--and terms like "moral decay" are just fear of change. Seems like the decay is constant--is there ever a time when we have "moral build-up" or have we just been falling apart constantly since some ideal moment no one actually remembers?

    If we want to talk about problems of morality, consensual sex is among the least important aspect of life, IMHO.

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