View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #331
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Hey, I'm just talking about what is "natural". I can't imagine why you think it is absurd. How exactly is masturbation or oral sex anymore "natural" than gay sex? If the penis ain't going in the vagina, then that can't be considered "natural".
    Why? If the the penis never goes in the vagina, then you may have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Of course, you could make the observation that primates utilize sex for more than simply reproduction. They also use it as a social bonding agent. It cements relationships, particularly between monogamous couples. It serves as a stress release agent. It's a recreational activity. It's a pretty multifaceted thing that is more defined by behavior than by the physical bits. But meh, that isn't nearly as fun as calling it "consumption only" and "fruitless". Ignoring the psychological and sociological benefits is perfectly fine as long as you can justify it doesn't serve some ordained biological purpose.
    If it feels good, do it. But if it means that you are only doing that which feels good to the exclusion of natural sex to procreate, you have just jumped the shark.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You mean like the loud forum that a preacher has when he stands in front of people and reads from an ancient book, dictating rules that are often contradictory and outdated. Yeah...we wouldn't want anyone to compete against that kind of forum to have their views heard. How dare they! You would almost think this was a free country in which people could exchange ideas openly and expect a reasonable discussion on them.
    You have decided to bring religion into this topic I suppose to try to draw an argument out of me that you feel more comfortable with; when in actuality, religion has little to do with natural law. Why do you suppose we (I) don't want all views heard. Are we not each posting our views here? Are you again going off on tangents that are irrelevant to this discussion? I think the term is strawman?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Those damn gays should know their place! Just like those damn black people! And those damn women! And those damn Native Americans! And any group of people who choose to stand up against societal norms! How dare they complain that they aren't treated equally! They should all just shut up! People have a right to choose to own slaves, segregate races, deny one gender the right to vote or hold office, take land that has been occupied for centuries, etc. That is what is traditional, and traditional is always right!
    Now you have ventured into the extreme and created a fantasy World born out of your imagination about things that have nothing to do with the conversation. Try to focus.
    We are not talking about tradition. We are talking about the decision of the majority in a democracy and natural law.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

  2. #332
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Land View Post
    Why? If the the penis never goes in the vagina, then you may have a point.
    The damn celibate priests and monks! It's disgusting how unnatural they are!

    If it feels good, do it. But if it means that you are only doing that which feels good to the exclusion of natural sex to procreate, you have just jumped the shark.
    I think we should replace all abstinence education with that bit of wisdom.

    Also, gotta love those unnatural people who choose celibacy.

    Oh, and those asexual people! Can you imagine how disgusting they must be to be born without a sex drive?

    I'm also sure those men who rape women and get them pregnant are certainly more in tune to that natural law than two men having sex. I mean, the former at least has a penis going into a vagina.

    You have decided to bring religion into this topic I suppose to try to draw an argument out of me that you feel more comfortable with; when in actuality, religion has little to do with natural law. Why do you suppose we (I) don't want all views heard. Are we not each posting our views here? Are you again going off on tangents that are irrelevant to this discussion? I think the term is strawman?
    Hey, you are the person talking about loud forums. I'm just agreeing with ya. How dare gays express their opinions openly and publicly!

    Now you have ventured into the extreme and created a fantasy World born out of your imagination about things that have nothing to do with the conversation. Try to focus.
    We are not talking about tradition. We are talking about the decision of the majority in a democracy and natural law.
    Hey, you made the argument that people shouldn't dare to defy the societal norm, and I was just agreeing with you. All those groups dared to defy societal norms. They should have known better, just like the gays should know better.

    I love how the "natural law" that you describe has become "Do whatever you want sexually as long as you eventually put the penis in the vagina." I can think of so many funny retorts for such a vaguely defined law. Of course, I'm assuming you are simply going to continue to attempt to tailor the "natural law" to your particular point of view, rather than what is teleologically observable. How exactly does human reason dictate that the penis must enter the vagina at some point? Is the sole purpose of every human being to attempt to procreate? If humans choose not to procreate then does that make them immoral? Most people know when to give up on a weak argument, but you just continue to make this fun for me.

    Also, in case you didn't know, we live in a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. We have what is known as a system of checks and balances in place meant to protect the rights of minorities form the tyranny of a majority.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-19-10 at 02:29 AM.

  3. #333
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Here we go with more lies.
    Good come back.

    No. I am accusing you of bigotry for lumping all religious people into the same group with blanket statements that are not true.
    If they want to prevent gays & lesbians from getting married, simply because they are not heterosexual, then YES they are bigots. Period.

    Please point out where I said homosexuals should not have the same rights? I think they should have all the rights of a married couple in a Civil Union, not a marraige.
    This is why you are a bigot. It's ok for YOU to get married but, not that other group. THAT is discrimination. You can't split hairs and "allow" gays & lesbians to have "civil unions". THAT is not up to you. I get a kick out of people who claim to be a Christian and then do un-Christian things to other people. If you believe in Christ, and follow his teachings, do you really think he would agree with you that "his children" who are homosexuals should be treated "any" different than you and your wife?

    You really have little understanding of the Bible or it's history. I will say you have a wonderful ability to exaggerate a great deal about things you know very little about.
    What have I said about the bible that you think is incorrect?

    It is true, you lied. It is an ad Hom yes, would it feel better if I called you a fabricator of tall tails?
    You call me a liar then say it was an ad hom. There's quite a difference between the two. Are you not old enough to know the difference between the two? Should we be talking face to face and you falsely accused me of being a liar I may not be as gentle with you. You really show a lack of maturity and control with your words.
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  4. #334
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Yep...problems abound. Remember, the NT wasn't written in English, and the word "homosexual" did not exist in English until about 150 years ago. If you look at the actual word in Greek from that passage, you'll find it means a man who performs sex with other men, in a pagan temple, for the purpose of pagan worship. Not exactly the same as George and Steve, your neighbors down the street, with the cat and the Prius.
    If our friend knows so much about bibles he should know that not only does the word "homosexual" not appear in King James bible it also isn't in the 21st Century King James version. Hmmm, I wonder how it got in those other versions? Maybe God himself wrote it in there, ehh?
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  5. #335
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Land View Post
    It is a life style that is contrary to the established accepted norm of today's majority. It is bad because it is fruitless. It is a self serving and selfish lifestyle. It gives nothing back to society in the way of the most precious thing there is; new human life. It is a consumption only lifestyle and to be honest, a royal pain in the neck. But I guess they at least contribute to the interior appearance of our homes and beauty of our women as home decorators and beauticians.
    1) Define normal.
    2) Homosexuals can and do procreate.
    3) Everything else you said is either your own unsubstantiated opinion or a stereotype, and therefore is irrelevant and demonstrates nothing but poor debating.




    Oh I see. You are one of those types that thinks just because you say a person is wrong it is a fact. You garner your moral strength and perspective from the support you get from others who think as you do and believe the lies because you have told it to one another so many times. You are going to change the World no matter what the majority want.
    Oh, I see. You are one of those types who refuses to accept facts and evidence and instead relies on their own bigotry and false information to cling to, completely incapable of defending their position with substantiation. I've dealt with plenty like you before. You've got nothing.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #336
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Land View Post
    I can only question your ability to understand the written English language when you read what I have said and think it is a hate speech. You are warning me for an infraction I did not commit? I see I may have made a mistake thinking that this forum was sincere in its claim to supporting intellectual debate. Seems the propaganda machine is rolling along nicely here...
    The only one spreading unintelligent propaganda is you. And if you comment on an official warning... which that was, publicly again, you will receive consequences. I hope that is clear enough for you.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #337
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Good come back.
    You lied.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    If they want to prevent gays & lesbians from getting married, simply because they are not heterosexual, then YES they are bigots. Period.
    This has nothing to do with why I accused you of bigotry...

    "I see all of this anti-gay rights as being based on fear. Fear of anything different than you. Fear of people thinking and behaving different than you. Just plain old fashioned, ignorant fear. Nothing personal. - ADK_Forever

    Please stop with the fallacy.

    I am not even going into the hypocrisy of the last statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    This is why you are a bigot. It's ok for YOU to get married but, not that other group. THAT is discrimination. You can't split hairs and "allow" gays & lesbians to have "civil unions". THAT is not up to you. I get a kick out of people who claim to be a Christian and then do un-Christian things to other people.
    Your rant has again nothing to do with my comment. Again dodging the questions. Here is what I actually said that you are trying to ignore...

    "Please point out where I said I am not a bigot? Everyone has their own bigotry including me. Please point out where I said homosexuals should not have the same rights? I think they should have all the rights of a married couple in a Civil Union, not a marraige.

    You are way out of line here.
    - Blackdog

    Sorry your deflection and dishonesty does not cut it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    If you believe in Christ, and follow his teachings, do you really think he would agree with you that "his children" who are homosexuals should be treated "any" different than you and your wife?
    Oh well I am sorry, I never new! I will give up the combined Christian wisdom of the last 3000 years and go with your teachings on the Bible. Your understanding is so much better than an actual Christin who studies the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    What have I said about the bible that you think is incorrect?
    "spare the rod spoil the child" is interpreted as an excuse to beat children? - ADK_Forever

    For starters. It is a comment on discipline, not beating children.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    You call me a liar then say it was an ad hom. There's quite a difference between the two.
    Yes their is. To bad you do not know the difference.

    Here was my answer to your question...

    "No, it makes you look silly and boring. No insult intended, but you asked." - Blackdog

    To which you responded with...

    "Name calling? That tactic may work for other people who think in terms of narrow views but, it has no effect on people thinking of the bigger picture. - ADK Forever

    Now first of all I did not call you a name nor did I imply anything even close. Lie #1. Then you followed up with even more statements that were nothing more than fallacy or out and out lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Are you not old enough to know the difference between the two? Should we be talking face to face and you falsely accused me of being a liar I may not be as gentle with you. You really show a lack of maturity and control with your words.
    Great another Internet tough guy. Making threats over the Internet.

    I have not falsely accused you of anything. That my friend is a lie unto itself as I have shown.

    Then you have the nerve to talk about maturity.

    Then you wonder why people here laugh at you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #338
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    You thought the New Testament was written in English?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    I know enough to tell that an ancient text can't be interpreted using language concepts that didn't exist when it was written, and that in order to understand any text, you need to consult the original language, not some word with a 150 year pedigree substituted in for a much more specific concept.
    Biblical scholers have been through this a million times don't you think? Do you think we don't know what our own Bible means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Rather than rail about my ignorance (which is as easy to do for an ignorant person as for a learned one), perhaps you could tell me by what dogma you get to pay close attention to one rule but completely ignore another just half-a-page away.
    That statement pretty much sums up again your lack of knowledge on the Bible or it's history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Not sure how that fits here. Was sex with prostitutes considered licit by religious authorities among the ancient Hebrews?
    I'll leave that to religious authorities. They're good at it.
    OK we are done here. No use going on about your ignorance on things you know nothing about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #339
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Land View Post
    Now you have ventured into the extreme and created a fantasy World born out of your imagination about things that have nothing to do with the conversation. Try to focus.
    We are not talking about tradition. We are talking about the decision of the majority in a democracy
    We live in a Constitutional Republic not aa all out democracy.
    and natural law.
    Homosexuality occurs in nature the very definition of natural.

  10. #340
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You lied.



    This has nothing to do with why I accused you of bigotry...

    "I see all of this anti-gay rights as being based on fear. Fear of anything different than you. Fear of people thinking and behaving different than you. Just plain old fashioned, ignorant fear. Nothing personal. - ADK_Forever

    Please stop with the fallacy.

    I am not even going into the hypocrisy of the last statement.
    Well, you might have to. There is nothing in that statement that is bigoted. Do you actually know what the word means?

    Your rant has again nothing to do with my comment. Again dodging the questions. Here is what I actually said that you are trying to ignore...

    "Please point out where I said I am not a bigot? Everyone has their own bigotry including me. Please point out where I said homosexuals should not have the same rights? I think they should have all the rights of a married couple in a Civil Union, not a marraige.

    You are way out of line here.
    - Blackdog
    I already responded to this bigoted statement. All you're doing is admitting over and over that you are in fact... a bigot. Let me spell it out for you one last time. Webster defines bigot as: "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance". Sound familiar?

    Oh well I am sorry, I never new! I will give up the combined Christian wisdom of the last 3000 years and go with your teachings on the Bible. Your understanding is so much better than an actual Christin who studies the Bible.
    I see you totally ignored Rassales' comment that the word "homosexual" was not even around until 150 years ago. So, I guess the bible you're looking at is pretty recent "re-interpretation" with a newer word added. THIS is the problem with taking the bible so literally. Original words and their meanings get slowly twisted and redefined.

    "spare the rod spoil the child" is interpreted as an excuse to beat children? - ADK_Forever

    For starters. It is a comment on discipline, not beating children.
    No kidding? Wow, I wonder... could that have been my point?

    Great another Internet tough guy. Making threats over the Internet.
    You will not find me threatening anyone in any of my posts. Go find one. I won't hold my breath. I was pointing out how easy you accuse someone "on the internet" of lying, an accusation some people take very seriously, very personally. My point was that only cowards make threats while hiding behind the skirts of the internet, as you have. I don't think people like you have the guts to make such foolish accusations in person. Such behavior seems to come easy to some people when they have been shown to be wrong. Seriously wrong.

    Then you wonder why people here laugh at you.
    I do not worry about fools acting like fools.
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    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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