View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #301
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    As always, a ridiculous comparison. Same sex marriage is based on the decision of consenting, human adults. And consenting adults can do to one another whatever they both (or all) agree to, no? Only a fascist could possibly think otherwise. Don't you think so?
    Alas, someone being deliberately obtuse and using ad hominem to buttress a patently illogical and silly argument.

    The point I was making is pretty clear, and that is: marriage by definition is ONE MAN + ONE WOMAN. Arguing that the definition of marriage also includes ONE MAN + ONE MAN is as absurd as saying that marriage also includes ONE DOG + ONE DOG. In both contexts, you are fundamentally changing the definition of the institution, which defeats the purpose for the institution in the first instance. So why not start recognizing marriages between flowers, rats, dogs and other living things?

    The liberal idiocy about "consenting, human adults" is a red herring. Granted it would be fascistic to argue that consenting human adults couldn't engage in any relationship or association they wish; conservatives do not argue this. It is not fascistic, however, to argue that the entire definition of marriage shouldn't be changed because liberals decide to introduce the absurdity of homosexual marriage as a constitutional right.

    To argue that believing that marriage between an man and a man is fundamentally flawed is fascistic, is as idiotic as arguing that believing a flat-screen TV should be used as a mattress is fascistic. Gays are free to be gay, and they are free to engage in the most disgusting homosexual relations to their full pleasure. I think it is indescribably immoral, but I think passing laws banning sodomy is a waste of governmental resources and would be very hard to enforce, but to argue that marriage ought to be destroyed in order to include gays is manifestly preposterously, and is the kind of absurdity that can only be promulgated by liberals.

  2. #302
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    To bad the OT laws do not apply to modern Gentiles.

    That was Gods laws for the Israelites.
    Ok, then I'm not sure why you brought up this verse from Leviticus, if it doesn't matter to modern Gentiles. Either the laws count and they matter, or they don't matter and you shouldn't use them in an argument. That book is full of the repeated insistence that readers should heed ALL the commandments--so if one is invalid, they all are. You don't get to pick and choose at your leisure, and then roll your eyes at those who find fault with your reasoning.
    That is utter hogwash.

    A man can NOT have sex for breading with another man.
    Perhaps you didn't understand, so I'll try again. Bible verses have to be read as they would have been understood in their own time. In this case, the verse refers to the only kind of sex ancient people would have considered--intercourse (there are lots of other kinds of sexual behavior). Also, there were practical reasons for this restriction (which I mentioned) that no longer apply today.

    It's strange--in the history of Christianity, no one has taken homosexual behavior so seriously or considered it so horrible as do contemporary American evangelicals. In previous times, same sex relations were placed in the same category as adultery and heterosexual fornication--sins for sure, but nothing approaching the cult of hatred we see in the US today.

  3. #303
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Back on topic here---If same sex marriages are made legal--they should include everyone, and no particular sub group of individuals.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

  4. #304
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Skateguy View Post
    Back on topic here---If same sex marriages are made legal--they should include everyone, and no particular sub group of individuals.
    Well, obviously.

    For that matter, I don't see how it would be possible to legislate against such, without incredibly invasive "big brother" systems to make sure the same sex persons were screwing each other, or something.

    But then what about the heterosexual couples who donít, for reasons of their own?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #305
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Well, obviously.

    For that matter, I don't see how it would be possible to legislate against such, without incredibly invasive "big brother" systems to make sure the same sex persons were screwing each other, or something.

    But then what about the heterosexual couples who donít, for reasons of their own?
    Exactly---A couples sexual habits, or lack there of, should not even be on the table. All marriages are not about sex to start with. Some are just business arrangements. and should be legal for everyone.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

  6. #306
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Ok, then I'm not sure why you brought up this verse from Leviticus, if it doesn't matter to modern Gentiles. Either the laws count and they matter, or they don't matter and you shouldn't use them in an argument.
    It was an example of being able to understand scripture.

    Here is what the NT says..

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 :Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals

    No problem understanding that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    That book is full of the repeated insistence that readers should heed ALL the commandments--so if one is invalid, they all are. You don't get to pick and choose at your leisure, and then roll your eyes at those who find fault with your reasoning.
    You obviously have very little understating of the Bible.

    You have not a clue about the different covenants etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Perhaps you didn't understand, so I'll try again. Bible verses have to be read as they would have been understood in their own time. In this case, the verse refers to the only kind of sex ancient people would have considered--intercourse (there are lots of other kinds of sexual behavior). Also, there were practical reasons for this restriction (which I mentioned) that no longer apply today.
    I understand this, and they understood that two men cannot conceive a baby.

    You are wrong as I have shown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    It's strange--in the history of Christianity, no one has taken homosexual behavior so seriously or considered it so horrible as do contemporary American evangelicals.
    This is not true. Judaism, Islam and many other religions condemn the behavior. It has little to do with just Evangelical Christians.

    PS I am non-denominational. I am not even a Protestant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    In previous times, same sex relations were placed in the same category as adultery and heterosexual fornication--sins for sure, but nothing approaching the cult of hatred we see in the US today.


    They were burned and tortured in some cases. You really need to study your history. Yea not wanting gay marraige ranks right up there with gassing homosexuals in Nazi camps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Ok, let me get this straight. You're accusing me of bigotry for wanting the same rights for everyone.
    Here we go with more lies.

    No. I am accusing you of bigotry for lumping all religious people into the same group with blanket statements that are not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    While you think you are not a bigot, or acting out of fear, for wanting to grant rights to a select group of people because of characteristics they were born with.

    Uhhh... ok.
    Please point out where I said I am not a bigot? Everyone has their own bigotry including me. Please point out where I said homosexuals should not have the same rights? I think they should have all the rights of a married couple in a Civil Union, not a marraige.

    You are way out of line here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    You actually think you know what any biblical statements mean? Let's see now, this is a book written several thousands of years ago by scores of men and/or women, interpreted thousands of times, rewritten how many times and all this in a time when "an eye for an eye" was the law of the land and "spare the rod spoil the child" is interpreted as an excuse to beat children?

    C'MON MANNNN!
    You really have little understanding of the Bible or it's history. I will say you have a wonderful ability to exaggerate a great deal about things you know very little about.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I'm not an expert here but, this sounds like a personal attack to me.
    Because you misunderstood and tried (unsuccessfully) to put words in my mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    And yet another.
    It is true, you lied. It is an ad Hom yes, would it feel better if I called you a fabricator of tall tails?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Your fear of gays and lesbians is as obvious as your lack of control when confronted with the reasons for your own bigotry.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-18-10 at 10:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #308
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It was an example of being able to understand scripture.

    Here is what the NT says..

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 :Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals

    No problem understanding that either.
    Yep...problems abound. Remember, the NT wasn't written in English, and the word "homosexual" did not exist in English until about 150 years ago. If you look at the actual word in Greek from that passage, you'll find it means a man who performs sex with other men, in a pagan temple, for the purpose of pagan worship. Not exactly the same as George and Steve, your neighbors down the street, with the cat and the Prius.
    You obviously have very little understating of the Bible.

    You have not a clue about the different covenants etc.
    I was unaware that different covenants allow people to pick and choose the laws they follow.
    I understand this, and they understood that two men cannot conceive a baby.
    Again, you aren't getting it. Some rules have practical backing--they make sense in their own context. In a world where there can never be enough people, where increasing one's population is the key to economic success, it makes sense to channel people's sexuality into procreation. That's hardly the case today.
    This is not true. Judaism, Islam and many other religions condemn the behavior. It has little to do with just Evangelical Christians.
    What part of "in the history of Christianity" did you not get?
    They were burned and tortured in some cases. You really need to study your history. Yea not wanting gay marraige ranks right up there with gassing homosexuals in Nazi camps.
    So were fornicators, but not often, and usually for the benefit of some powerful person or group whipping people into a frenzy.

    If evangelicals took half the energy they spend condemning the sins of others and used it to concentrate on the sins they themselves are tempted to, they'd make of the world a much more Godly place.

    But railing about the sins of others is much more fun.

  9. #309
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Yep...problems abound. Remember, the NT wasn't written in English, and the word "homosexual" did not exist in English until about 150 years ago. If you look at the actual word in Greek from that passage, you'll find it means a man who performs sex with other men, in a pagan temple, for the purpose of pagan worship. Not exactly the same as George and Steve, your neighbors down the street, with the cat and the Prius.
    You have got to be kidding???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    I was unaware that different covenants allow people to pick and choose the laws they follow.
    Has nothing to do with my comment. This comment also pretty much sums up your Biblical knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Again, you aren't getting it. Some rules have practical backing--they make sense in their own context. In a world where there can never be enough people, where increasing one's population is the key to economic success, it makes sense to channel people's sexuality into procreation. That's hardly the case today.
    What part of "in the history of Christianity" did you not get?
    So were fornicators, but not often, and usually for the benefit of some powerful person or group whipping people into a frenzy.
    They had prostitutes around correct? Well if that is the case, it pretty much blows your only for breeding scenario clean out of the water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    If evangelicals took half the energy they spend condemning the sins of others and used it to concentrate on the sins they themselves are tempted to, they'd make of the world a much more Godly place.
    This has nothing to do with your ignoring my correct point, or pointing out your hypocrisy, but I can agree with your statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    But railing about the sins of others is much more fun.
    Well why don't you cast the first stone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #310
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I don't see why the government sponsors marriage anyways. If it is indeed a religious institution then the government should have no part in it. If it isn't a religious institution then anyone who wants the legal benefits of marriage should be able to do it without discrimination. Marriage benefits, whether gay or not, are discriminatory to single people.
    From the Constitution, Article 1, section 8;

    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


    "To establish a uniform rule of naturalization,...."

    In as much as defining marriage is necessary to meet the responsibilities listed under Article 1, section 8,.... Congress not only has the right to define marriage,... but it also has the responsibility to do so in keeping with uniformity and respect to the "general welfare" needs of the nation.

    Just my 2 centavos! (imigration punn intended)

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