View Poll Results: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

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  • yes,-- everybody should be treated equal

    95 40.95%
  • No--some people should recieve preferential treatment

    137 59.05%
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Thread: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

  1. #111
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    The above point is actually part of the main reason why I feel marriage should be stripped from the legal code all together. Its coopted from essentially a religious ceremony and as long as you allow the government to use the word the religious word will lose some of its meaning. At the same time, the religious stigmas will forever be attached to the government word which is problematic from a legal stand point. If you truly want to protect the “sanctity” of marriage then it needs to be stripped from the law and placed as a word solely in the realm of the private citizen. Make all unions under the law civil unions. This preserves the word as a religious term and keeps the sanctity of it for each individual person on the church they attend and gets the government out of the separate but equal conundrum that they should not be in.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Ah, and once again in this thread you put forth a pathetic attempt to use sarcasm to prove your point and once again you do a laughably poor job at is not to mention, once again, and illogical and factually inaccurate one. Try this Jerry, make an argument, give reasons to support it, maybe your posts in this thread won’t be so laughably terrible and devoid of anything of use.

    There are two different terms.

    The LEGAL term Marriage

    The PRIVATE term Marriage

    The government has no interest, and indeed is constitutionally barred, from caring about the Private term of Marriage when it comes the religious ceremony and act. If a church wants to forbid a man and woman from being married they can go right ahead. Hell, if they believe their religion thinks that only those between the ages of 20 and 25 who are of opposite sexes, within 2” in height to each other, and have blonde or brown hair and that’s all they’re marry then the government has no real say in it. So yes, gay people theoretically can get married under a church that CHOOSES to allow them to in the private sense of the word. No one is arguing they can’t do that or the government needs to do something about that.

    However, you see, GOVERNMENT uses the term marriage as part of the law. And GOVERNMENT can not have a state sponsored religion meaning its use of marriage in and of itself cannot be tied to any religion nor qualified based on any particular religion. Additionally, since marriage as a legal term is part of the law that marriage IS the responsibility of the government to look over and be sure that its being equitable and constitutional. Separate but equal, UNDER THE LAW, has long been established as something that should not be happening with things protected under the 14th amendment in this country. Having two laws, that do the exact same thing, but are called different and are based on the sex of the individuals is essentially separate but equal. Not allowing it at all, based on sex, is discriminatory.

    Now I’m sure you knew this already and were just playing ignorant about this information and how the law works so that you could make your pathetic attempt at a sarcastic point that fell flat on its face. However, for those that didn’t realize it and were ignorant of separation of church and state and the fact that private marriage and marriage under the law is different, hopefully that enlightened them.
    One wonders why you brought religion into this conversation, then.

  3. #113
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    One wonders why you brought religion into this conversation, then.
    One would have to wonder that, if one also had absolutely no short term memory, didn't read the thread, can't remember what they wrote, or is choosing to play dumb to continue to duck out of actually having a conversation and debating and prefers to just spit out non-stop pathetic attempts at sarcastic one liners.

    Why would one have to wonder that?

    Because I didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yeah, free religious expression is so dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    ....free religious expression not FTW?
    You entered it in as a reason why it was "bigoted" and apparently unconstitutional to deny people the rights, UNDER THE LAW, to have marriage allowing polygamy.

    It is difficult to make worthless quips like yours above when, you know, its a forum so what you wrote before is kind of available to everyone else to read and see the facts. May want to keep that in mind next time.

  4. #114
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Good valid observations all. And makes me rethink the whole Marriage Institution --It may be easier to just scrap the current system for all genders, and implement one that is more in step with the times. One that is clear at the beginning, about what to expect should it come to a halt. (like a standardized Pre Nup) Rather than the current system, which simply says you are married, and good luck. This could only benefit all sexes, and not favor one over the other. A contract of Marriage, should be no different than any other contract people enter into. The agreement, and all legal ramifications, should be clearly stated at the beginning of the Marriage, not at the end of the marriage, when people are not thinking clearly.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    One would have to wonder that, if one also had absolutely no short term memory, didn't read the thread, can't remember what they wrote, or is choosing to play dumb to continue to duck out of actually having a conversation and debating and prefers to just spit out non-stop pathetic attempts at sarcastic one liners.

    Why would one have to wonder that?

    Because I didn't.





    You entered it in as a reason why it was "bigoted" and apparently unconstitutional to deny people the rights, UNDER THE LAW, to have marriage allowing polygamy.

    It is difficult to make worthless quips like yours above when, you know, its a forum so what you wrote before is kind of available to everyone else to read and see the facts. May want to keep that in mind next time.
    "Free religious expression" is a legal construct and I said it in a legal context.

    Why you then brought up anything about private-term-marriage is beyond me. It's not something I was ever talking about.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    "Free religious expression" is a legal construct and I said it in a legal context.

    Why you then brought up anything about private-term-marriage is beyond me. It's not something I was ever talking about.
    No, you ATTEMPTED to bring it up as a legal construct. You failed at that because it had no baring in this case as a legal construct becasue MARRIAGE under the law isn't an expression of religion. However, because you incorrectly attempted to bring it into the discussion of a legal construct I had to correct your:

    1. misconception that it had any baring on marriage under the law
    2. misunderstanding of how and where religious expression would apply to marriage, which would only be in the private form of it in which it is a religious act

    So your attepmt, one done out of apparent ignorance for the law, at interjecting religious expression into a discussion of the law is what caused religion to have to be discussed.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, you ATTEMPTED to bring it up as a legal construct. You failed at that because it had no baring in this case as a legal construct becasue MARRIAGE under the law isn't an expression of religion. However, because you incorrectly attempted to bring it into the discussion of a legal construct I had to correct your:

    1. misconception that it had any baring on marriage under the law
    2. misunderstanding of how and where religious expression would apply to marriage, which would only be in the private form of it in which it is a religious act

    So your attepmt, one done out of apparent ignorance for the law, at interjecting religious expression into a discussion of the law is what caused religion to have to be discussed.
    No, I actually did bring it up as a legal construct. You failed to see how it is relevant.

    So you deny that religion is a federally protected class? You deny that the 1st. Amendment affords the constitutional right of polygamists to marry if they choose?
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-14-10 at 05:14 PM.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Marriage has always been a state/legal institution.

    It's just that only recently have humans been smart enough to remove their governments from the abusive control of religions. Hence the confusion that marriage is a religious matter.

    It's not.

    It's secular.

    It's a contract between two people, and there's no practical reason what that contract should not be extended to ANY two people. I haven't read this thread, but the one thing I can guarantee is that the people opposing same-sex marriage have not provided any rational foundation for their opposition, unless this thread is somehow different from the ten thousand other threads on the same topic.

    So, since it's none of my business who marries who, I really can't name a valid reason why I or anyone should oppose same-sex marriage.

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Marriage has always been a state/legal institution.

    It's just that only recently have humans been smart enough to remove their governments from the abusive control of religions. Hence the confusion that marriage is a religious matter.

    It's not.

    It's secular.

    It's a contract between two people, and there's no practical reason what that contract should not be extended to ANY two people. I haven't read this thread, but the one thing I can guarantee is that the people opposing same-sex marriage have not provided any rational foundation for their opposition, unless this thread is somehow different from the ten thousand other threads on the same topic.

    So, since it's none of my business who marries who, I really can't name a valid reason why I or anyone should oppose same-sex marriage.
    ...or someone of the same or opposite marital status....

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    Re: Should Same Sex People be allowed to Marry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, I actually didYou deny that the 1st. Amendment affords the constitutional right of polygamists to marry if they choose?
    It certainly does.

    Bans on polygamy have everything to do with religious/personal bias and nothing to do with the Constitution, since the Constitution doesn't address marriage explicitly and marriage is covered under the Full Faith and Credit clause and the Ninth Amendment.

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