View Poll Results: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income one makes?

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  • Yes

    40 35.40%
  • no

    64 56.64%
  • maybe/other

    9 7.96%
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Thread: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No.

    Profiling happens before a crime is committed. You can't get pulled on suspicion of speeding, just speeding.

    And profiling involves some characteristic of the driver that's obvious. It's hard to target high income drivers. Perhaps they are targeting Lexus's instead of beat up Volkswagens?
    What if cops started only picking on the obviously wealthy motorists, because it would mean more revenue?

    Yes, it would be profiling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Maybe we should give old people shorter jail sentences, since they have less time to live.
    This has been done for years and should be public knowledge. Incarceration should be a thing of the past.There should be a goal to do this..

  3. #83
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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What if cops started only picking on the obviously wealthy motorists, because it would mean more revenue?

    Yes, it would be profiling.
    It COULD be, if that happened.

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What if cops started only picking on the obviously wealthy motorists, because it would mean more revenue?

    Yes, it would be profiling.

    You just convinced me profiling works

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Yes, no ,maybe?

    Europe slapping rich with massive traffic fines


    European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

    Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

    Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person's wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

    The Swiss court appeared to set a world record when it levied the fine in November on a man identified in the Swiss media only as "Roland S." Judges in the eastern canton of St. Gallen described him as a "traffic thug" in their verdict, which only recently came to light.

    "As far as we're concerned this is very good," Sabine Jurisch, a road safety campaigner with the Swiss group Road Cross.
    I voted yes in principle, but in reality the government would have to have too much financial information on the person in order to assess their fine level. I wouldn't want cops having access to that information when issuing fines, or any level of government, other than maybe the IRS who is doing taxes. That information is confidential.

    Also, as mentioned earlier, the points deduction system applies to all people regardless of financial class, so if you are a routine reckless driver you will still lose your license.

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And I don't see why it should be any different.
    You said, "unless speeding is proven to be related to income", or something to that effect. I just wanted to make it clear.

    How exactly is it related? Is the punishment for murder 10-15 for rich people but 25-30 for poor people?
    Again, you really don't seem to be grasping the argument here. Time is something whose value is not related to income or wealth; the value of a fixed amount of money is related to income or wealth. I know you're a smart guy so I'm not quite sure why you haven't caught on to this by now.

    Again, that's one way to look at how fines work. You could also look at it in terms of total amount
    Which, as I have stated repeatedly, punishes poor people more than rich people.

    which I think is more logical
    How?

    administratively simpler
    I'll give you that one.

    and historically accepted.
    Okay, but should we really

    As you note, we're talking about all fines, not just speeding. I can think of a dozen federal fines off the top of my head - environmental fines, SEC fines, etc.
    If it bothers you that much, it could only apply to state/local fines. Though I still think it's possible to consider it a tax.

    It should also be mentioned that the reason the 16th Amendment was necessary was not because it is a "form of profiling", as people are claiming that the same idea for fines here is.

    Anyways, would you feel better about it if it was based on net worth, rather than income?

    We've had a system like this for the past 90 years and it seems to work just fine. Do all rich people drive 150mph wherever they go, killing children left and right?
    Is this really relevant to the fact that rich people aren't as heavily punished for the same crime as poor people?

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    As long as the cop who writes the ticket isn't the one who determined the fine, and isn't rewarded based on the amount of revenue he brings in, I don't see this being a problem. The cop would just issue the ticket and that would be the end of his involvement (assuming the driver doesn't contest it), much as it is now. The cop would have no particular incentive to write tickets for rich guys as opposed to the poor.
    great point-speeding tickets are mostly revenue scams (I was a city prosecutor for several years). If this idiotic scheme passes, cops will target expensive cars and leave alone junkers

    I have seen this before in dog catcher behavior. They target the poodles of rich ladies in wealthy areas for leash law violations rather than snooping around the biker bars and tough neighborhoods rounding up some mope's pit bull because the rich lady isn't going to bust a cap in their head and she is gonna pay the fine to get FiFi back
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 01-17-10 at 12:56 AM.



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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    Yes, no ,maybe?

    Europe slapping rich with massive traffic fines


    European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

    Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

    Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person's wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

    The Swiss court appeared to set a world record when it levied the fine in November on a man identified in the Swiss media only as "Roland S." Judges in the eastern canton of St. Gallen described him as a "traffic thug" in their verdict, which only recently came to light.

    "As far as we're concerned this is very good," Sabine Jurisch, a road safety campaigner with the Swiss group Road Cross.
    I think it's an idea worth considering. A sliding scale of sorts. It makes a whole lot of sense.

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    No, if you're rich, you worked hard to be so, you deserve the money. Why should some people be allowed to pay less fine for the same infraction?

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    Re: Should traffic fines and other fines be based on the income the offender makes?

    It depends how wealthy or poor you are is the way most people will answer. I voted yes cause I'm poor.

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