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Wow. Just wow.
People could always try learning a little bit before typing, misterman.
Wow. Just wow.
It is only because yours is based upon pure ignorance that you would attempt this sort of turnspeak.
Oh please, do tell me what I'm ignorant about. As a woman, who has been in violent relationships, who is intimately familiar with some of the things that have been mentioned already. Praytell, DO enlighten me.
Actually, long flowing robes are specifically designed to cool the body. Hence their popularity in desert regions.
We're specifically addressing the Islamic oppression of women here, not the overall women abuse in the world, which is a much smaller of a problem than the Islamic oppression of women. (With all due honesty)And those things happen to non-Islamic women too. Women get beaten, raped and murdered all over the country every day. We don't force them to stay inside because of it. We don't take away their rights because of possible violence enacted against them. We actually go for the source.
Your words.And what the hell makes you think I'm not "aware" of how such families operate?
That I'm not "aware", intimately, of what can happen to women who are in abusive relationships or the threat of them such as some Muslim women are in?
Yes, let's soften things up by saying "some" while it's actually a huge amount of Muslim women.The fact that SOME Muslim women
That is your position, I believe that it is a cause.live under threat of violence is no cause for limiting some of THEIR RIGHTS and the rights of all other women in the world.
Stop? No.Are you really under the delusion that the violence will stop because they're not afforded the legal choice to wear a certain outfit any longer? Seriously?
Nobody takes rights away here.You really think it's that ****ing simple? Take away someone's rights and it makes it all better?
That would be stupid.You may as well make it a law that all women can't go out past dark because they might get hurt. Or hell, don't allow them to marry at all because god knows they might choose a violent husband.
There's no wrong choice here.We can't let them make a choice, they might make the wrong one.
Retards tend to write in caps.It's ****ing retarded.
Umm, caps.And insulting to ALL women.
So I am a sexist now?The attitude that some of you guys have regarding women being able to choose for themselves, even if it's not the damn choice YOU would make is astounding. It's amazing to me just how sexist so many men still are today.
The way to change things is from the bottom up and not top down authoritarianism. When you see these clowns walking around in costumes mock and ridicule them out of existence. If they want to hide behind full body drapes tell them just to stay home behind closed doors altogether like the freaks that they are.
turnspeak
Women being abused is women being abused.We're specifically addressing the Islamic oppression of women here, not the overall women abuse in the world, which is a much smaller of a problem than the Islamic oppression of women. (With all due honesty)
Oh please.Your words.
What else could?
So wait.. it's not ALL Muslim women, it's not even MOST Muslim women. It's SOME. That's not "softening" anything up, that's being accurate. It's a small percentage of all Muslim women.Yes, let's soften things up by saying "some" while it's actually a huge amount of Muslim women.
Yeah, clothing choices aren't rights. We should just all wear uniforms. That would stop a vast amount of violence, after all. And no rights would be infringed. :roll:Nobody takes rights away here.
There is no right to wear blankets.
Exactly. You remove their choice and pretend that removing their choice is for their own good. Like a parent does a child. Don't sit there and pretend you're doing women any favors by removing or limiting their choices.Banning the Burqas would, however, mean that it is not the women's choice to wear them
Apparently there is. Since you want to remove the choice altogether. I mean, we can't let women think for themselves after all.There's no wrong choice here.
It is over the top sexist to assume you know better than an entire gender what's best for them and that you should remove or limit their choices in order to "help" them since they are incapable of making the choice themselves. Yeah, it's an extremely sexist attitude. It's the exact same reasoning men had for keeping women from being allowed to vote. "It's for their own good". Ditto for women in the workforce. Ditto for women in the military. ****ing bull****. Same ****ing sexist crap, different day.So I am a sexist now?
Do realize that your accusations have became valueless once you have wrongly applied them to promote your argument.
Nobody's telling you to wear a Burka, .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan
If you are wearing a coat in July in Miami or Nice, you are gonna get frisked....
Problem solved.....
Fine.
..........
And the frequency is way higher in the Muslim world.Women being abused is women being abused.
Please what?Oh please.
That's not being accurate since nobody has claimed otherwise.So wait.. it's not ALL Muslim women, it's not even MOST Muslim women. It's SOME. That's not "softening" anything up, that's being accurate.
That's outright being wrong.It's a small percentage of all Muslim women.
There is no right to choose what to wear.Yeah, clothing choices aren't rights. We should just all wear uniforms. That would stop a vast amount of violence, after all. And no rights would be infringed. :roll:
As I said, I couldn't give a damn as to how you choose to label my position.Exactly. You remove their choice and pretend that removing their choice is for their own good. Like a parent does a child. Don't sit there and pretend you're doing women any favors by removing or limiting their choices.
No, we just wish to remove their ability to make one of those choices, and by that, to save them from the negative consequences of each choice.Apparently there is. Since you want to remove the choice altogether. I mean, we can't let women think for themselves after all.
As I said. Valueless.It is over the top sexist to assume you know better than an entire gender what's best for them and that you should remove or limit their choices in order to "help" them since they are incapable of making the choice themselves. Yeah, it's an extremely sexist attitude. It's the exact same reasoning men had for keeping women from being allowed to vote. "It's for their own good". Ditto for women in the workforce. Ditto for women in the military. ****ing bull****. Same ****ing sexist crap, different day.
As I said. Valueless.
I find it hilarious that you honestly believe I'm motivated by Sexism.Indeed. Sexism is valueless. As is implementing it into law.
The arrogance and ignorance of some men in this thread is astounding.
Do all women in the world a favor, stop "fighting for their rights". The attitudes of people like you set women's civil rights fights back decades.
I find it hilarious that you honestly believe I'm motivated by Sexism.
If I'm your version of a Sexist, then it doesn't seem like you know a thing about Sexism.
No, we just wish to remove their ability to make one of those choices, and by that, to save them from the negative consequences of each choice
Oh give me a ****ing break. They live in western societies with governments that will protect them. If someone did abuse me, I'd have them arrested. If I didn't have them arrested and instead continued to 'obey' them and suffer abuse, well... that would be my choice.
No, his position is based on sexism, arrogance, and misogyny.
And hell, Gardner flat out said they weren't mentally competent to make the choice themselves.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for most of those actually wearing one.
THey don't have to give a **** about the government. That is, until the cops come and drag them off to jail. Then they can sit in jail and not give a **** there.That is not only wrong, but horribly offensive to the many women who live under the oppressive thumb of their families and are being told that they are only living that way because "it's their choice". The threat of physical, emotional, or sexual violence is enough to keep these women under the veil... and the people who would perform such acts of violence, don't give a sh*t whether or not the government is okay with it.
Of course they do. Just like any number of other murders. And? Should we lock women inside and not allow them out because they might be hurt? HOw many other choices should we remove from women so that they don't make the 'wrong' ones?Do you really think that honor killings and the like don't happen in Western countries? Because they do.
Sometimes it isThis seems to me kind of like saying that an anti-Obama position is based on racism.
It's women we're talking about. He said that if women chose to wear such clothing, that they were just ****ed in the head. So obviously, they can't be allowed to make such a choice, right?No, he said that many of them suffer Stockholm Syndrome. He never said that only women are capable of such a condition.
Feel free to respect whatever you want. I don't respect people's opinions just because they have them. And I most certainly do not respect sexism, condescending attitudes, insulting opinions, or misogyny. You feel free to do so though. And I'll feel free not to respect your respect of their opinions. :lol:Keep in mind that I do not support banning or fining burqas. I just, unlike you, respect the opinion of those who do.
Then go and read a book or something instead of randomly accusing posters of terms that are unknown to you.If this:
isn't sexist, I don't know what is.
In my posts I was quite clear that there is no wrong choice, and that every choice they'd make would have some form of a negative impact on their lives, to the level of being murdered.You want to 'save' women from a possible negative consequence of a choice by removing their ability to make a choice. And hell, Gardner flat out said they weren't mentally competent to make the choice themselves.
How can what you guys are saying be construed as anything BUT sexist? Women can't make the choice themselves, they might make the wrong one and experience a "negative consequence". Women can't make the choice themselves because if they choose to wear a burqa, then they're mentally ****ed in the head anyway. We must 'protect' women from their own choices.
I don't know, really.How are those attitudes anything BUT sexist?
Do not consider the possibility that you yourself are incapable of seeing what you do not seem to understand, it would only slow you down in your anti-'Sexism' crusade.They're condescending AND sexist. They are the epitome of a sexist attitude. One entire gender can't be allowed to make a choice because they might make the wrong one and they might experience "negative consequences" so you almighty men MUST make the choice for us. Gimme a break. You're treating ALL women like ****ing children and claiming some moral high ground in the process. It's ridiculous.
And I'm honestly astounded that an otherwise intelligent individual is incapable of seeing it.
Do you really think that honor killings and the like don't happen in Western countries? Because they do.
Honor killing is a recognized term, and is identified with Islam.Of course they do, just as lots of honor killings which have nothing to do with Islam or Sharia law happen all over the world.
Indeed, and that is why we choose to prefer the woman's safety and freedom over the woman's pleasure from wearing a blanket.So what? You can't differentiate between the women who are forced to wear a Burka and those who wear it because they choose to.
Why don't you attempt to explain how it ISNT sexist.Then go and read a book or something instead of randomly accusing posters of terms that are unknown to you.
Yup, you attempted to explain how you perceived any choice to have a negative impact on their life. You FEEL that any choice has a negative outcome. Why don't you let women decide that for themselves. There are many thousands who would disagree with you. Oh wait... they're just screwed up in the head, right? I mean, no woman in their right mind would go against what you think is best for them, right? No woman in her right mind would dare think differently than you, correct?In my posts I was quite clear that there is no wrong choice, and that every choice they'd make would have some form of a negative impact on their lives, to the level of being murdered.
Yes, it is. You can't let them choose for themselves, as the all powerful man, you must make the choice for them. Because you know what's best for them better than they do, I'm sure.Hence, I proposed that by taking the choice away from them, AKA, by banning the burqa, they would not have to face those negative consequences.
How chauvinistic of me, eh?
Indeed, but those are all topics for another conversation.I don't know, really.
How are they not racist, too.
After all, most of the said women probably belong to the Arab race, no?
Perhaps it's also Islamophobic to look for the safety of the Muslim women that live in Islamic communities?
Might as well consider me a socialist for promoting the state's involvement in the individuals' life, no?
I understand completely. It would seem that you are the one who is lacking clarity.Do not consider the possibility that you yourself are incapable of seeing what you do not seem to understand, it would only slow you down in your anti-'Sexism' crusade.
THey don't have to give a **** about the government. That is, until the cops come and drag them off to jail. Then they can sit in jail and not give a **** there.
Of course they do. Just like any number of other murders. And? Should we lock women inside and not allow them out because they might be hurt? HOw many other choices should we remove from women so that they don't make the 'wrong' ones?
Sometimes it is
It's women we're talking about. He said that if women chose to wear such clothing, that they were just ****ed in the head. So obviously, they can't be allowed to make such a choice, right?
Feel free to respect whatever you want. I don't respect people's opinions just because they have them. And I most certainly do not respect sexism, condescending attitudes, insulting opinions, or misogyny. You feel free to do so though. And I'll feel free not to respect your respect of their opinions. :lol:
Ultimately, it is only symbolic if nothing else is done. If it is part of a package of actions all geared towards the same end, then it is a useful tool.
So what? You can't differentiate between the women who are forced to wear a Burka and those who wear it because they choose to.