View Poll Results: Burqa ban+fine, example to follow or shy

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  • This law should be completely implemented in the West

    9 18.00%
  • This law is a must in general

    1 2.00%
  • This law is good

    4 8.00%
  • The law is not good

    29 58.00%
  • Other opinion(explain).

    7 14.00%
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Thread: French law could see fines for burqas

  1. #71
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Am I the only one to notice what a paradigm shift we have experienced since the sixties? With the exception of some of the more dogmatic libertarians, it is now the left that argues in favor of the visciously misogynistic oppression of women, while it is the right that seeks to uphold women's rights.
    Bull****.

    I support the right of women to dress how they want - in a burqa, or not.

  2. #72
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    How is legislating what a woman can wear protecting or upholding her rights?
    Surely if you wished to uphold said rights, you'd support an individuals right to wear what they wish.
    It is the awareness that the negative effects and results of the burqa are caused not by state legalization, but by communities' and families' pressure on the individual.

    It is not done in alignment with the law, but in alignment with the family/community values.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  3. #73
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    It is the awareness that the negative effects and results of the burqa are caused not by state legalization, but by communities' and families' pressure on the individual.

    It is not done in alignment with the law, but in alignment with the family/community values.
    I highly doubt every female who wears a burqa or niqab do so because of pressures. Some, as hard as it may be to comprehend do actually wear it because they choose to.

  4. #74
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    It is the awareness that the negative effects and results of the burqa are caused not by state legalization, but by communities' and families' pressure on the individual.

    It is not done in alignment with the law, but in alignment with the family/community values.
    People shouldn't have a say in how they run their everyday life? The family believes X, they shouldn't be allowed to follow? While the problem with things like burqa's is that in society where the oppression is encouraged it becomes a problem. Outside that society, however, and it becomes personal choice. If you have a society based in freedom and liberty, then those wearing the burqa are doing so by their own desire and will.

    And how does this help women. Let's say there's a woman in an abusive/oppresive household. How is barring them from wearing a burqa outside helping them out? All you're going to do is prevent them from going outside. Shut ins who suffer far greater then. You have to go after the root causes, not some superficial display. Indoctrination into the free society. It has to be made understood that there is always a choice, that women do not have to submit totally to men (not even their husbands). They have rightful voice and protection by law. Then you don't even need a stupid law banning a burqa.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #75
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    How is legislating what a woman can wear protecting or upholding her rights?
    Surely if you wished to uphold said rights, you'd support an individuals right to wear what they wish.
    You mean wear what her owner wishes.

    Given the specific culture, the chattel involved face the probably of being beaten or cut up for even saying it ISN'T her choice.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  6. #76
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Bull****.

    I support the right of women to dress how they want - in a burqa, or not.
    What you are supporting is the continuation of an anarchistic system where women are considered chattel. This is an anti liberal position you have staked out, especially because the women who have been so systematically terrorized into wearing these signs that they are property will say it is actually their choice because the consequences for them saying otherwise are too terrible.

    It isn't their choice at all, but that of their owners.
    Last edited by Gardener; 01-13-10 at 01:50 PM.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Bull****.

    I support the right of women to dress how they want - in a burqa, or not.
    What about a picture for a driver's license? Should she remove?

  8. #78
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    I don't doubt that the French government or the people who support this law mean well. I know they think that this is the best way to help those few French Muslim women who are actually oppressed and forced daily into wearing religious attire they don't want to wear.

    Fining these women for the clothes they wear will not change their fate or their oppression in the slightest. I actually believe it will make their situation infinitely worse. Also, knowing the French Muslim population as I do, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if more and more women start wearing these clothes as a political statement, just like they did after the ban on veils in government buildings.

    I believe that fines and bans are the worst way to tackle the very real problem of Muslim oppression of women. From a freedom loving point of view as well as from a woman's perspective, I find the idea of a government punishing those who freely chose to wear these garments even more abhorrent than the idea of religious oppression.

    Banning the symbol will not make the problem go away. It's just a lazy way to pretend that something is being done
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  9. #79
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    You mean wear what her owner wishes.

    Given the specific culture, the chattel involved face the probably of being beaten or cut up for even saying it ISN'T her choice.
    If this were Saudi Arabia I'd be right there with you. This is France. What a woman wears is of no consequence as the laws of the land already state that she is her husband's equal. The problem is not the attire and banning her clothes will not change her or her husband's cultural indoctrination. Studies have shown that French Muslims are the most secular in the whole of Europe. Those few who do wear these clothes (and they are such an insignificant number, it's almost laughable) are newly arrived immigrants who are still immersed in their cultural traditions. Those traditions fade dramatically with every generation.

    Interestingly enough, however, other than newly arrived immigrants, there is a small number of newly converted French women who chose to wear these clothes. Their choice has nothing to do with either cultural tradition nor fear or ignorance. It's a religious choice that harms no one and the government should butt out.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  10. #80
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I don't doubt that the French government or the people who support this law mean well. I know they think that this is the best way to help those few French Muslim women who are actually oppressed and forced daily into wearing religious attire they don't want to wear.

    Fining these women for the clothes they wear will not change their fate or their oppression in the slightest. I actually believe it will make their situation infinitely worse. Also, knowing the French Muslim population as I do, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if more and more women start wearing these clothes as a political statement, just like they did after the ban on veils in government buildings.

    I believe that fines and bans are the worst way to tackle the very real problem of Muslim oppression of women. From a freedom loving point of view as well as from a woman's perspective, I find the idea of a government punishing those who freely chose to wear these garments even more abhorrent than the idea of religious oppression.

    Banning the symbol will not make the problem go away. It's just a lazy way to pretend that something is being done
    I couldn't possibly agree more.

    I guess this means that nuns will no longer be permitted to wear their full habit, either.

    Genius.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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