View Poll Results: Burqa ban+fine, example to follow or shy

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  • This law should be completely implemented in the West

    9 18.00%
  • This law is a must in general

    1 2.00%
  • This law is good

    4 8.00%
  • The law is not good

    29 58.00%
  • Other opinion(explain).

    7 14.00%
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Thread: French law could see fines for burqas

  1. #261
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    That's not really true. French Muslims are a lot more assimilated than many of their fellow Muslims elsewhere in Europe. Most of them are actually quite secular. The problem is not that they don't assimilate, the problem is that French society at large still sees them as second class citizens; doesn't much care about improving their precarious social conditions; doesn't really work hard at ending the latent racism still present in the country and is very quick to place blame on them whenever anything goes wrong.
    Isnt all this boiling back to the race question. Is it possible for one race to not treat a second and third minority race as secondary? Also racial conflict is the root of the problem.

    Is there really any way around this?
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    But is racial discrimination not unavoidable when minorities of other races become substantial?
    A country either considers itself civilised or it doesn't. A civilised country fights against racism and tries to eradicate it.

    Otherwise it only pretends to be civilised.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
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  3. #263
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    A country either considers itself civilised or it doesn't. A civilised country fights against racism and tries to eradicate it.

    Otherwise it only pretends to be civilised.
    But all countries in the west fights against racism, yet we all have non white minorities that are not at all integrated into society and are treated as second ranked citizens.
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    But all countries in the west fights against racism, yet we all have non white minorities that are not at all integrated into society and are treated as second ranked citizens.
    Well, then they're not fighting enough against racism.

    There is certainly more work to be done.

    It's a choice, we either go toward civilisation or toward barbarism.

    Our government seems to be taking us toward barbarism.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
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  5. #265
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    Well, then they're not fighting enough against racism.

    There is certainly more work to be done.

    It's a choice, we either go toward civilisation or toward barbarism.

    Our government seems to be taking us toward barbarism.
    Maybe the fight is impossible?

    Consider the Arabs and Blacks in Frace.
    Turkish in Germany.
    Indians and Pakistanis in the UK.
    Pakistanis and others in Scandinavia.
    Hispanics and Blacks in the US.

    And so fourth...

    Mention me one example of a successfull bi/tri-racial society where all races as a whole are integrated, treated equal and live the same way. Certainly not in any of these societies.
    I cant think of any historical examples either where this has succeeded.
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  6. #266
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Maybe the fight is impossible?

    Consider the Arabs and Blacks in Frace.
    Turkish in Germany.
    Indians and Pakistanis in the UK.
    Pakistanis and others in Scandinavia.
    Hispanics and Blacks in the US.

    And so fourth...

    Mention me one example of a successfull bi/tri-racial society where all races as a whole are integrated, treated equal and live the same way. Certainly not in any of these societies.
    I cant think of any historical examples either where this has succeeded.
    Societies evolve and so do situations.

    Before there used to be colonies, now there is migration of people for economical reasons.

    If a society does not evolve and adapt according to the given situation, it will not be considered civilised.

    If there hasn't been any 100% successful multicultural society until now it is because societies of rich nations are still getting adapted to the recent reality of mass migration.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

  7. #267
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    and those who are assimilated DON'T want he burqa, and are the very people most endangered by the spread of its use.
    Of course, they don't want the burqa. But many of them still want the ability to chose to wear hijab. There was a strong backlash against the efforts of some politicians to completely ban headscarves a while back. Women who were not wearing them, often highly educated women, started to wear them as a political statement. This despite the rising violence in those godforsaken suburbs. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar backlash happened this time around. French Muslims are a very different breed from other European Muslims. Especially the women.

    Considering the political correctness of Europeans as a whole, either that last statement of yours reflects deep divide between French attitudes and the majority of western Europe or that those actually holding those beliefs simply do not share them with others.

    If you were to change that last line to read "are quick to excuse Muslims for the atrocities they do commit in the name of their religion", I think you would be more on the mark at least for the majority.
    That may be true elsewhere in Europe, but certainly not in France. Different Muslim demographics, different colonial history.
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  8. #268
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    I've been to Algeria several times and once on assignment for ELLE magazine on a story about Algerian women.

    They are VERY courageous and very active in the social and political arena. In the 90s they were the loudest voice against the rise of the Islamic radical groups such as FIS and were not even intimidated by death threats. They were very active in the resistance movement FLN and played a great role in the independence of Algeria.

    Coming back to France, they are mostly secular and involved in associative work.
    Oh, they're feisty alright. Have you heard about that Algerian actress that got attacked last week? She's still bravely going ahead with her show. This is the kind of role model young French Muslim girls need.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  9. #269
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Oh, they're feisty alright. Have you heard about that Algerian actress that got attacked last week? She's still bravely going ahead with her show. This is the kind of role model young French Muslim girls need.
    Of course I heard about her. A good example of someone who has the guts to stand in the face of radicalims even after she almost lost her own face.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

  10. #270
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Of course, they don't want the burqa. But many of them still want the ability to chose to wear hijab. There was a strong backlash against the efforts of some politicians to completely ban headscarves a while back. Women who were not wearing them, often highly educated women, started to wear them as a political statement. This despite the rising violence in those godforsaken suburbs. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar backlash happened this time around. French Muslims are a very different breed from other European Muslims. Especially the women.
    Well, it is evident that people must get so caught up in "slippery slope" arguments and/or their own dogmatism that they cannot distinguish between this:




    and this:




    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    That may be true elsewhere in Europe, but certainly not in France. Different Muslim demographics, different colonial history.
    Well, if muslims are most assimilated in France, which has the lowest degree of political correctness and least assimilated in places like Britain which has the highest degree of political correctness, is there anybody else out there but me who notices the correlation -- one that could very well be a case of cause and effect?

    Seems a simple enough concept to grasp -- if you want people to assimilate, treat them with the expectation that they WILL assimilate, and if you don't want them to assimilate, adopt the typical politically correct multiculturalist apologetics.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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