View Poll Results: Burqa ban+fine, example to follow or shy

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  • This law should be completely implemented in the West

    9 18.00%
  • This law is a must in general

    1 2.00%
  • This law is good

    4 8.00%
  • The law is not good

    29 58.00%
  • Other opinion(explain).

    7 14.00%
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Thread: French law could see fines for burqas

  1. #241
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Would you care to give your own proposal as to how to combat the situation?
    I've discussed that with Gardener earlier in the thread and agreed with his views on how else to tackle problem suburbs in France.

    I'd also like to point out one thing that may help you understand why I think banning these garments will have no effect on the level of violence in France. The dramatic rise in violence, gang rapes and murders committed against women in French suburbs is a relatively recent phenomena. The generation of women being targetted is young. Their mothers never went through this. Women wearing hijabs was a rarity in France up to the late 80s, early 90s. All of a sudden, some 15 to 20 years ago, young Muslim men in the poor suburbs started systematically attacking and/or raping young girls who they considered not "pious" enough. This is the reason many girls started to wear the hijab, to protect themselves from these attacks.

    You see, the problem started at a time when French Muslim women were NOT wearing these clothes. They were being raised in a country that taught them they were men's equals in every respect. They behaved and dressed exactly the same as the native French women. Until, seemingly out of the blue, the abuse started. When hardly anyone was wearing Islamic dress anywhere in the country and practially no one was expected to. Clothes are not the problem. No matter what they wear, if the root of the problem is not addressed, these girls will continue to be abused by out of control, unemployed, radicalized young men.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  2. #242
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    This is simple logic. Women who are being forced to wear Burkas when they go out in public will not be allowed out in public when the Burka is banned.
    While far from being simple logic, this is an unsupported claim.
    I honestly do not believe that the Islamic communities would lock up their women.
    Someone needs to do the shopping, right?
    Google is your friend, but I'll give you a head start:

    Thousands of Women Killed for Family "Honor"
    You've given an article that supports my point that honor killings are identified with Islam.
    Good job.

    I can also testify that all of the honor killings in Israel, one of the states that were listed in the article, are Muslim-made. 100%.
    I believe the words I used were, a rash of, in other words, a trend of or a wave of or a lot of. Can you cite a source that shows at honor killing in France is the rule rather than an aberration?
    Google is your friend, but I'll give you a head start: Thousands of Women Killed for Family "Honor"
    In other words, you can't address the point. Noted.
    I gave you a reference to my arguments, this is pure trolling and is against the forum's rules.
    Consider yourself reported for the good of the clean debaters, or in other words, those who are capable of creating arguments.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 01-16-10 at 05:14 PM.
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  3. #243
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    No, criminals are not always caught, frequently because victims CHOOSE not to press charges or help the police. Yes. CHOOSE.

    Women aren't always willing to put their family in jail? Willing implies choice, does it not? That is their CHOICE.

    A woman who has a multitude of resources to get out of an abusive relationship but yet keeps going back and going back makes the CHOICE to do so. Yes. The choice.
    You're right rivrrat. These women are making a choice. They are choosing to wear the burqa rather than get beaten, raped, and possibly killed, plus almost certainly outcasted.

    It is a choice they should not have to make.

    They are also choosing not to contact the police, which would probably result in nothing (since, as I said, it is the THREAT of abuse that keeps them in line) except turning her family against her. They choose not to do so because doing so would be pointless.

    It is their choice if they choose to remain there. It is their choice if they don't take advantage of the numerous opportunities (namely, the ****ing police) to get out of an abusive relationship. When ****ing cop comes to the door and the woman remains silent, that is HER CHOICE. I agree, it is sickening that so many women - Muslim and non-Muslim - willingly choose to remain in abusive situations when there are countless people ready, willing, and able to get them and keep them safe. Yes, it IS sickening.
    Not all abusive relationships can be solved legally.

    If they are being kept under lock and key, then that's a different matter. But then, banning the burqa isn't going to do jack **** to help them because the least of their worries is what piece of cloth is on their bodies.
    I agree, the burqa should not be banned.

    Yeah sure. Women who drive past shelters and police stations and instead head right back into the arms of the very person abusing them doesn't happen, right? Like I said, if someone is being kept under lock and key where they are unable to speak to or see another person, then of course it's not their choice. But, if they are out on the street, walking past cops, and thousands of other people, and they head right on back to the abuse, then yes... it IS their choice. In the western world.
    Many Muslims who supposedly live in the "Western World", i.e. Europe, actually do not, and basically still live as if they are in their country of origin, and just happen not to be.

  4. #244
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You're right rivrrat. These women are making a choice. They are choosing to wear the burqa rather than get beaten, raped, and possibly killed, plus almost certainly outcasted.
    Some face no such risks, yet still choose to wear it.

    Please stop playing games with facts.

    And hey, how does banning it solve that problem anyway? It just makes them more likely to be beaten, raped, and possibly killed. Duh.

  5. #245
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post

    Please stop playing games with facts.

    .

    The fact that you would consider facts as anathema to your argumentation says much.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  6. #246
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    The fact that you would consider facts as anathema to your argumentation says much.
    Huh? Try making sense.

    The fact is that some women freely and intelligently choose to wear the thing.

    (I'm back from that Muslim wedding by the way. They whipped the bride and forced her to lick the groom's feet while covered in a bedsheet. Great stuff. )
    Last edited by misterman; 01-16-10 at 11:40 PM.

  7. #247
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Huh? Try making sense.

    The fact is that some women freely and intelligently choose to wear the thing.

    (I'm back from that Muslim wedding by the way. They whipped the bride and forced her to lick the groom's feet while covered in a bedsheet. Great stuff. )
    Once again, I will point out to others that I am not the one here confusing extremist muslims with moderate.

    That you would stoop to such a patently dishonest and underhanded tactic says much about you.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  8. #248
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I've discussed that with Gardener earlier in the thread and agreed with his views on how else to tackle problem suburbs in France.

    I'd also like to point out one thing that may help you understand why I think banning these garments will have no effect on the level of violence in France. The dramatic rise in violence, gang rapes and murders committed against women in French suburbs is a relatively recent phenomena. The generation of women being targetted is young. Their mothers never went through this. Women wearing hijabs was a rarity in France up to the late 80s, early 90s. All of a sudden, some 15 to 20 years ago, young Muslim men in the poor suburbs started systematically attacking and/or raping young girls who they considered not "pious" enough. This is the reason many girls started to wear the hijab, to protect themselves from these attacks.

    You see, the problem started at a time when French Muslim women were NOT wearing these clothes. They were being raised in a country that taught them they were men's equals in every respect. They behaved and dressed exactly the same as the native French women. Until, seemingly out of the blue, the abuse started. When hardly anyone was wearing Islamic dress anywhere in the country and practially no one was expected to. Clothes are not the problem. No matter what they wear, if the root of the problem is not addressed, these girls will continue to be abused by out of control, unemployed, radicalized young men.
    You are correct and I will never emphasise enough that the problem with the immigrant community is France is S.O.C.I.A.L and NOT religious.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
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  9. #249
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    While far from being simple logic, this is an unsupported claim.
    I honestly do not believe that the Islamic communities would lock up their women.
    Someone needs to do the shopping, right?
    Yep, someone does. The daughter, the niece, the young girls who are unmarried and still in school where they aren't allowed to wear even a simple hijab. The new generation that will probably never don a burqa. It's too late for the mother. She's been indoctrinated with the idea never to show any part of her body to men who aren't family members and she will not take the off her burqa unless her husband commands it.

    There are an estimated 2000 women currently wearing face conceiling Islamic clothes in France, only about 300 to 500 wear the Afghanistan style burqa, the rest wear niqab that conceils everything but the eyes. Their daughters walking by their side on the streets usually wear hijab. I really do think that those very few who wear burqas will not be allowed outside again. The ones wearing niqab will probably remove the veil on their faces, but they won't take off anything else. Will that be enough to satisfy the French government?
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  10. #250
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    You are correct and I will never emphasise enough that the problem with the immigrant community is France is S.O.C.I.A.L and NOT religious.
    Absolutely. I think it's shameful what French politicians are doing. They're trying to fix a massive social problem they should have tackled at least two decades ago, by targeting this new wave of burqa wearing immigrants who had nothing to do with the original problem in the first place. It's like giving a bandaid to a cancer patient and hoping that it will be the magical cure everyone is hoping for.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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