View Poll Results: Burqa ban+fine, example to follow or shy

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  • This law should be completely implemented in the West

    9 18.00%
  • This law is a must in general

    1 2.00%
  • This law is good

    4 8.00%
  • The law is not good

    29 58.00%
  • Other opinion(explain).

    7 14.00%
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Thread: French law could see fines for burqas

  1. #221
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I would rather inconvenience a few very slightly while saving many others quite thoroughly, while you would rather condemn the many quite thoroughly in order to satisfy the convenience of the few.

    I am quite comfortable with this difference between us.
    Me too. You're a tyrant, I believe in freedom.

    Seriously, you do realize that it's possible to have a compromise, don't you? Think about it.

  2. #222
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    House slaves and field slaves were both slaves.
    Irrelevant, seeing as how I already stated that in this case, you can't tell the difference between slaves and employees, since you can't tell the difference between those who elect to wear the Burka and those who are forced to wear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Whether a women wears it because she considers it protection against gang rape, or whether she wears it because she would be badly hurt in other ways, the coercive elements are the same.
    Are you arguing that there are no other reasons women wear Burkas in an enlightened country like France?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Like slavery, it is an entire SYSTEM that needs to be addressed here, and continuing this system just because a few have been conditioned to support it is NOT a valid reason for continuing to support this system - -especially if one makes the claim they have any empathy whatsoever for those systematically brutalized by it.
    Allowing women to wear Burkas doesn't support the system you're talking about.

    If you force all women to shed these garments, then the women who wear them because they are forced to will be forced to remain in their homes. They will not have any meaningful interaction with their neighbors, or anybody else who might have any interest whatsoever in their well-being.

    Does that sound like the way to address "the system?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    There is a bigger picture involved here than the extremely simple minded argument that "it's their choice".
    Absolutely, like not doing more harm with your good intentions.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #223
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    I'm curious, did you miss it where I said a law like this should never be implemented in a free society?
    So what? That doesn't make your view any less distasteful, and and I'm no more interested in seeing your view become a matter of law simply because you say it should never be implemented in a free society.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #224
    free market communist
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post


    Are you arguing that there are no other reasons women wear Burkas in an enlightened country like France?
    Do you honestly know so little about the practice or the social dynamics involved?

    The muslim women involved are NOT, let me repeat NOT living in France society wise. They are living in ghettos in isolated sub communites where they have almost no exposure to Freance.

    Those Muslim women who ARE integrated or who DO want to be part of France don't want the Burqa.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  5. #225
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Do you honestly know so little about the practice or the social dynamics involved?

    The muslim women involved are NOT, let me repeat NOT living in France society wise. They are living in ghettos in isolated sub communites where they have almost no exposure to Freance.

    Those Muslim women who ARE integrated or who DO want to be part of France don't want the Burqa.
    Maybe - but how do you know so much about what Muslim women want?

  6. #226
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Allowing women to wear Burkas doesn't support the system you're talking about.

    If you force all women to shed these garments, then the women who wear them because they are forced to will be forced to remain in their homes. They will not have any meaningful interaction with their neighbors, or anybody else who might have any interest whatsoever in their well-being.

    Does that sound like the way to address "the system?"
    Sure - just like liberating our women from wearing tops. Let's free them from the religious oppression of covering their boobies! That will solve everything.

  7. #227
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I have addressed your point the same way that you have addressed mine, and now you declare it as the incapability to address a point.

    How pathetic, really, I feel sorry for your astonishingly weak argument skills.
    Actually, you didn't address my point at all, whereas I did address yours by showing you where you were wrong, but by all means feel free to play another round of "I know you are but what am I" by yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    IIndeed, a very different statement than "you take away people's freedom".
    I am willing to allow the minor violation of a woman's freedom in order to ensure the safety of many other women, just like her.
    As I tried to explain to Gardner, all you're ensuring is that the women who were being forced to wear Burkas will be isolated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Are you suggesting that the women living in Islamic communities are capable of combating this oppression?
    Because it doesn't seem to be so, seeing that thousands of them die due to honor killings every year.
    Lots of women die in honor killings every year that have nothing to do with Islam.

    That said, I haven't heard of a rash of honor killings in France, where this law is being discussed. Have there been, or were you throwing that out there because a red herring is the best you've got?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Since it is not related to my argument and I do not argue for or against the damage that Burqa-wearing women do to their surroundings, I have no opinion on the issue as to present time.
    Consider me neutral if you must.
    Since you can't or won't argue that women in Burkas harm others by wearing a Burka, then how can you justify forcefully stripping them of their freedom to wear one? Isn't the only legitimate argument for stripping an adult of their liberty that they pose a threat to other people?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #228
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sure - just like liberating our women from wearing tops. Let's free them from the religious oppression of covering their boobies! That will solve everything.
    I totally agree.

    Liberty for boobies now!
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #229
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Me too. You're a tyrant, I believe in freedom.

    Seriously, you do realize that it's possible to have a compromise, don't you? Think about it.
    How is the support of the most very extreme elements within Islam considered a "compromise"?

    I find it highly ironic how often it is those who like to wag fingers at others in regards to not distinguishing between moderate Muslims and extremists are the very ones who show the least inclination towards doing so, themselves.

    The "compromise" here is to support modern, moderate Muslims in their fight against the backwards elements within their society.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  10. #230
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Do you honestly know so little about the practice or the social dynamics involved?

    The muslim women involved are NOT, let me repeat NOT living in France society wise. They are living in ghettos in isolated sub communites where they have almost no exposure to Freance.

    Those Muslim women who ARE integrated or who DO want to be part of France don't want the Burqa.
    You got a source for any of that?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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