View Poll Results: Burqa ban+fine, example to follow or shy

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  • This law should be completely implemented in the West

    9 18.00%
  • This law is a must in general

    1 2.00%
  • This law is good

    4 8.00%
  • The law is not good

    29 58.00%
  • Other opinion(explain).

    7 14.00%
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Thread: French law could see fines for burqas

  1. #121
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    A few passages in a book about life in Afghanistan speaks to this and the mentality and mindset cultivated in women with respect to wearing the burka and participating in society without being made to feel alienated or like an outcast.
    Gosh, you mean some women don't want to wear it an feel oppressed by it? Thanks for the news flash.

    My point was that not all of them do. Some choose to wear it.

    Just let them choose, either way.

  2. #122
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    The french prove time and again how pathetic their country is.
    This is totally uncalled for. I hate it when people make these sort of comments when the US government does something they disapprove of and I hate it just as much when it's directed at another country. France is not pathetic. The French government, however, if it ever passes this law, absolutely is. If "government" is what you meant by "country", then I agree with you.

    Additionally, you may be a little premature in your condemnation of an entire nation. This law is the brain-child of a small segment of the ruling UMP party. Even Sarkozy is not 100% behind it. Even the leader of the far-right National Front is against banning burqas, correctly pointing out that there are already laws in place that forbid the wearing of face-concealing items in certain public places. The proposed law will be discussed
    in a couple of months and might not get voted on before the fall. I'd be extremely surprised if it ever passes.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  3. #123
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The "second one" I referred to was my question about whether your suit is a tool of oppression of the sex that has to wear it.
    Define "tool of oppression." I don't want to wear a suit. My society tells me I have to wear it because I'm male. Does that make it a tool of oppression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav
    The only reason any woman would want to be dehumanized would be if they have been brainwashed to believe that they are sub-humans whose sole purpose in life is to serve their husband,
    Or maybe YOU are brainwashed into being an individualistic, capitalist American heathen. Ethnocentrism FTW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav
    which is pretty sad in itself. Anyways, I doubt that a majority of women currently under the burqa would continue doing so if one day her husband/family announced that he would be fine with her keeping it off.
    And I doubt most men in my office would continue wearing suits if one day their employer/clients announced that they'd be fine with them keeping it off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav
    Do the Amish women have to cover their entire body, including their face, at all times in public? No? That's what I thought.
    So far I haven't heard any substantive differences between those styles of dress, other than you don't think women should cover their faces. But that's just YOUR sense of fashion.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-15-10 at 05:28 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Define "tool of oppression." I don't want to wear a suit. My society tells me I have to wear it because I'm male. Does that make it a tool of oppression?
    I was referring to oppression of one sex by another - in this case, of men by women. If suits are oppressive, then they are a case of men oppressing themselves, so it's not really comparable.

    Or maybe YOU are brainwashed into being an individualistic, capitalist American heathen. Ethnocentrism FTW.
    Or maybe evolution is brainwashed into making us desire interactions with others, interactions which are in large part reliant on being able to see the other person's face.

    And I doubt most men in my office would continue wearing suits if one day their employer/clients announced that they'd be fine with them keeping it off.
    And yet their employer/clients most likely have to wear suits as well. Suits which do not cover the whole face and body.

    So far I haven't heard any substantive differences between those styles of dress, other than you don't think women should cover their faces. But that's just YOUR sense of fashion.
    I listed plenty of reasons why having to cover your face is vastly different than other "oppressive" forms of dress. I was under the impression that you hadn't ignored it, too.

  5. #125
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Define "tool of oppression." I don't want to wear a suit. My society tells me I have to wear it because I'm male. Does that make it a tool of oppression?

    And I doubt most men in my office would continue wearing suits if one day their employer/clients announced that they'd be fine with them keeping it off.
    A suit is a sign of formality and representation, a burqa is a sign of the woman's obedience to the male in Islamic culture, in a relation of ownership.
    Or maybe YOU are brainwashed into being an individualistic, capitalist American heathen. Ethnocentrism FTW.
    Dav's comment seems to be the less media-influenced one here, Kandahar.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  6. #126
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post

    My point was that not all of them do. Some choose to wear it.

    Just let them choose, either way.
    My point was that with psychological abuse people may make decisions and "choose" things that are not in their best interest although they are the ones making the choice.

    So when you post something that says:
    Women who choose to wear the burqa are choosing to belong – not to feel alienated.
    There is far more to it than merely a "choice." Something your superficial analysis did not even take into account.
    Last edited by ScummyD; 01-15-10 at 08:27 PM.
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

  7. #127
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    A suit is a sign of formality and representation, a burqa is a sign of the woman's obedience to the male in Islamic culture, in a relation of ownership.
    So is the practice of the father giving away the bride at a wedding. But we didn't ban it, we just educated ourselves and redefined the meaning. It's now just a symbolic gesture.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  8. #128
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    My point was that with psychological abuse people may make decisions and "choose" things that are not in their best interest although they are the ones making the choice.

    So when you post something that says:

    There is far more to it than merely a "choice." Something your superficial analysis did not even take into account.
    I agree. For so many Mulsim women, the "choice" is between wearing the Burqa and being beaten, knifed or raped.

    Great "choice", eh?


    As far as I'm concerned, the only women who say they WANT to wear the d@mn things have experienced such psychological abuse that hey are experiencing something akin to the Stockholm syndrome.


    again, I point out how it is mostly conservatives arguing for womens rights, while the left argues in favor of systematic degradation of women.

    If people wish to support Muslims, instead of supporting the troglodytes, why not support those like the group Ni Putes Ni Soumises who are fighting against the oppression?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  9. #129
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Excellent law, perhaps it is the begining of the movement to defend Europe.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  10. #130
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    Re: French law could see fines for burqas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Define "tool of oppression." I don't want to wear a suit. My society tells me I have to wear it because I'm male. Does that make it a tool of oppression?


    Does your owner beat you if you don't wear it, K? Do you fear being gang raped if you don't wear your suit?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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