View Poll Results: Since reading or participating in the abortion threads

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • My views have changed to completely against abortion

    2 4.08%
  • My views have change to slightly more against abortion

    6 12.24%
  • My views have not changed at all on abortion

    35 71.43%
  • My views have changed to slightly more in favor of abortion

    2 4.08%
  • My views have changes to completely in favor of abortion

    4 8.16%
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Thread: Why are you here?

  1. #51
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I use to be firmly against abortion in all its forms. Much like you chuz. Thanks to many an abortion debate plus other debates mixed in I found the value of personal choice. Which is ultimately what our Constitution is about. I may not personally like the idea of abortion. But I do not have the right to tell someone else what they should believe in or do with their own bodies.
    (Per your comment in bold)

    Do you mind if I ask whet there is about abortion,... that you don't like?

  2. #52
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    Arrow Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    How are you going to enforce a ban on abortions? Are you going to treat every miscarriage like a possible murder? Are you going to haul women into the police station and inspect their private parts for evidence of an abortion? Yea, that sounds real swell.
    This is all subject for another thread.

  3. #53
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    Exclamation Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Just as long as you realize your previous statements were totally inaccurate. Women were, generally speaking, controlled by their husbands and immediate family; it most certainly was draconian. They didn't have the liberty and choice they're afforded today.
    Has the availability of elective abortion done anything to quell the numbers of abused, controlled, or intimidated women?

    What about the numbers of women who would like to keep their baby,... But their husband (partner) pushes, intimidates and controls them to the point where they have an abortion?

    The knife cuts both ways on this one.

    (Think O.J.Simpson and Robert Blake)
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 01-11-10 at 02:15 PM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    (Per your comment in bold)

    Do you mind if I ask whet there is about abortion,... that you don't like?
    All of it. Personally I believe much as you do that at the moment of conception there is an entirely new life that should have all the rights that you and I do.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  5. #55
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    Question Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    All of it. Personally I believe much as you do that at the moment of conception there is an entirely new life that should have all the rights that you and I do.
    I know you mean basic rights,.. (i.e. right to it's life) but others might not.

    It would really help preserve what's left of my sanity,.... if you could explain how it is that you can justify your position (keep elective abortion legal) having said what you just said (above).

    I don't see how you can reconcile the two.

  6. #56
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I know you mean basic rights,.. (i.e. right to it's life) but others might not.

    It would really help preserve what's left of my sanity,.... if you could explain how it is that you can justify your position (keep elective abortion legal) having said what you just said (above).

    I don't see how you can reconcile the two.
    It's simple. I have no right to tell people what to think or do with their own bodies.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #57
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It's simple. I have no right to tell people what to think or do with their own bodies.
    Can people do ANYTHING they want to with their bodies?

    Even if it kills another?

    Molestation?

    Rape?

    You said as much yourself that an abortion kills "an entirely new life that should have all the rights that you and I do."

    So, how do you explain the desparity in that you probably do agree with laws that tell a rapist or a child molester what they can't do with THEIR bodies,... But you can't do the same for a woman who just changes her mind and doesn't want to be pregnant,.. so she's willing to pay someone to kill and remove her child?

    I really am trying hard to see how you reach your conclusions.

    But it doesn't make sense to me.

    I do owe you a lot of thanks for trying to 'splain it' for me though.

    Your patience is appreciated.

  8. #58
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Can people do ANYTHING they want to with their bodies?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Even if it kills another?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Molestation?
    They are not molesting their own bodies so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Rape?
    They are not raping their own bodies so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    You said as much yourself that an abortion kills "an entirely new life that should have all the rights that you and I do."
    You're right I did. And I stand by that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    So, how do you explain the desparity in that you probably do agree with laws that tell a rapist or a child molester what they can't do with THEIR bodies,... But you can't do the same for a woman who just changes her mind and doesn't want to be pregnant,.. so she's willing to pay someone to kill and remove her child?

    I really am trying hard to see how you reach your conclusions.

    But it doesn't make sense to me.

    I do owe you a lot of thanks for trying to 'splain it' for me though.

    Your patience is appreciated.
    You forgot the qualifying adendum in my post. "Think".

    When you strip everything down to it's bare essence everything on this planet that is biological and living is nothing more than a bunch of cells. Humans are not apart from this. So what is it that makes us humans so much different from any other plant or animal? It's not the cells as every plant and animal has cells also. A dolphin has been shown to be highly intelligent, even at par with humans in some cases. Yet we still consider them animals. So it must not just be that we are more intelligent.

    So what is it that makes us so special? There must be a certain "part" (for lack of a better term atm) that seperates us from an animal. A "soul" perhaps? Or perhaps even a certain chemical balance within our bodies.

    So you may be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the cells growing in a womb is alive and has human DNA. But you cannot prove what it is that makes us....US.

    I believe that, whatever it is that happens, happens at conception. But I cannot prove it. Because I cannot prove it I have no right to tell another person what to think. If a person decides that the "thing" growing with in their bodies is nothing more than a parasite I cannot disprove that. Especially when it does have all the markers of a parasite.

    In the end it is that qualifying "specialness" (again for lack of a better word) that makes a human different from every other animal on this planet. And it is that "specialness" which must be proved (and when it happens) before I can move to the side with which I am more comfortable with.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #59
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Nope, I haven't changed my views at all. I've definitely refined them some though. I don't personally like the idea of abortion, and I would not encourage a woman to get one, but it's not my place to make decisions for others on what they can do with their bodies, and I don't believe pre-viability fetuses are legal persons or 'human' so they have no rights that need to be protected.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #60
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    Re: Why are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yes.

    No.

    They are not molesting their own bodies so no.

    They are not raping their own bodies so no.

    You're right I did. And I stand by that.

    You forgot the qualifying adendum in my post. "Think".

    When you strip everything down to it's bare essence everything on this planet that is biological and living is nothing more than a bunch of cells. Humans are not apart from this. So what is it that makes us humans so much different from any other plant or animal? It's not the cells as every plant and animal has cells also. A dolphin has been shown to be highly intelligent, even at par with humans in some cases. Yet we still consider them animals. So it must not just be that we are more intelligent.

    So what is it that makes us so special? There must be a certain "part" (for lack of a better term atm) that seperates us from an animal. A "soul" perhaps? Or perhaps even a certain chemical balance within our bodies.

    So you may be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the cells growing in a womb is alive and has human DNA. But you cannot prove what it is that makes us....US.

    I believe that, whatever it is that happens, happens at conception. But I cannot prove it. Because I cannot prove it I have no right to tell another person what to think. If a person decides that the "thing" growing with in their bodies is nothing more than a parasite I cannot disprove that. Especially when it does have all the markers of a parasite.

    In the end it is that qualifying "specialness" (again for lack of a better word) that makes a human different from every other animal on this planet. And it is that "specialness" which must be proved (and when it happens) before I can move to the side with which I am more comfortable with.
    Damn,.. I hate long posts.

    My responses to this could take a week.

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