View Poll Results: Is marriage a right?

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  • Yes.

    25 43.10%
  • No.

    33 56.90%
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Thread: Is marriage a right?

  1. #81
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You might want to add the word "yet" to your post. The trial is just begining so it's quite possible that they will still bring it up. Right now it seems like they are just addressing the opening statements at this juncture. This case will no doubt evolve to other areas.

    I'm hoping that Prop 8 will be overturned. Once it is you can be sure that it will go across all the other states like wildfire.
    Perhaps, but I'd argue that the point I was responding to is quite weak and unworthy of serious discussion in a court. If the defendants bring in witnesses to say that marriage is a religious tradition and that SSM hurts religious people as a result, I'll be very surprised. It's one of the first arguments in forums like these, but in a court of law that move is a loser.

  2. #82
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    IMO, you are incorrect.

    I view marriage as something which can exist between two persons, regardless of any legal contracts they have made.

    In fact, I consider it possible for two persons to be married without having performed any ceremonies whatsoever.

    I would say that a "legal marriage" would be the "*OPTIONAL ADDITION*" to it's non-legal counterpart.
    You can view it any way you like, that doesn't mean much. You can declare a pig to be a duck if it really makes you happy. However, just living together doesn't make one married, it makes two people living together.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #83
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I personally am not against "gay marriage" as a private (as in, not effected by any governing body) institution.

    What I AM against is the creation of laws to regulate something many persons consider part of their religion.
    Funny, there were people who considered slavery to be part of their religion, I guess we ought to recind civil rights and reinstate slavery, huh?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    By the way, some very good lawyers are trying just such a case this week in California. It's telling that these lawyers are making no such arguments as you've suggested above. Their tactic is to tie "marriage" to procreation and family rearing--a much more PRACTICAL sort of concern.
    Which is ridiculous because they'd have to declare all marriages in California that do not result in offspring null and voice. That means women past menopause could not be married, sterile people could not get married and even people who choose not to breed could not get married.

    Sure, like that's a can of worms they want to open.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #85
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You might want to add the word "yet" to your post. The trial is just begining so it's quite possible that they will still bring it up. Right now it seems like they are just addressing the opening statements at this juncture. This case will no doubt evolve to other areas.

    I'm hoping that Prop 8 will be overturned. Once it is you can be sure that it will go across all the other states like wildfire.
    Perhaps, but I'd argue that the point I was responding to is quite weak and unworthy of serious discussion in a court. If the defendants bring in witnesses to say that marriage is a religious tradition and that SSM hurts religious people as a result, I'll be very surprised. It's one of the first arguments in forums like these, but in a court of law that move is a loser.

  6. #86
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yes, it is a privilege...
    So, you agree with me. Great!

  7. #87
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm in late.
    Is marriage a right?
    Well - if it isn't a right then it's a priveledges and priveledges can be denied, a right cannot. . . it can be regulated and stipulated but not outrightly denied.
    Not at all true.
    If you do not meet the qualifications necessary to obtain said privilege, it can be (and usually is) denied outright.

  8. #88
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Actually, "that everyone has the same right to a privilege" is the key issues here.
    The "key issue" here is if marriage is a right or a privilege (see: topic title and associated poll question).
    Everything else is beside that point.

  9. #89
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not at all true.
    If you do not meet the qualifications necessary to obtain said privilege, it can be (and usually is) denied outright.
    Exactly what I talking about - there are strict rules and regulations, thus, it's a priveledge in our country's standards.
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  10. #90
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The "key issue" here is if marriage is a right or a privilege (see: topic title and associated poll question).
    Everything else is beside that point.
    I've explained this twice before in this thread, most recently and explicitly in post #66. But to recap, the Constitution's 14th amendment guarantees that every citizen has a right to be treated equally by the law when it hands out privileges. The word "privilege" is actually IN the amendment. The government cannot grant a privilege to one class of people and not to another.

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