View Poll Results: Is marriage a right?

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  • Yes.

    25 43.10%
  • No.

    33 56.90%
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Thread: Is marriage a right?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    I have no particular problem with this idea, but I don't think it will create the distinction you're looking for, and I'm not sure it's legal.

    First, what you suggest is pretty much exactly what gay marriage advocates want, since under your idea, gays could get married. You can go to a church that doesn't marry people of the same sex to each other. Another person can go to (even start) a church that does recognize same sex marriage. Both of you get ceremonies, both of you would be "married." There are very few requirements under the law to be recognized as a church or as clergy--a good thing since we don't want government determining the difference between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" faiths. There might be churches that exist for the sole purpose of same sex marriage.

    Is that what you're looking for?
    I'm straight, so I really don't have a dog in the fight in that regard. What I am looking for is for us as a society to get back to following constitutional principles.

    And apparently the only difference is that one is sanctified by a "church" and one is not. I'm not sure the law has any business in that argument. Which leaves us with everyone's having a "civil union" and some choosing to call that union "marriage." What's to stop someone calling his/her relationship a "marriage" if they wish? Is that a question for the law?
    No, I wouldn't be surprised, but I asked you for some backing to your claim and you've given none. A general suspicion of all humanity means little.
    Very simple, my answer was long winded. In both a secular and faith union, there are witnesses and a signatory. The only reason we would need to have any government recognition at all is for tax and benefits implications, so why not just eliminate the governments status bases in the tax code or apply the equal protections clause to all sanctioned unions.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  2. #42
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Well, after all is said and done from the looks of things this is where the contention mainly lies with regards to gay marriage. All other things seems more like a side deal than anything else.

    Perhaps it is time for the Federal Government to decide if marriage is a right or not. In straight terms instead of suggesting that it is via privileges given.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    as an act between two people, yes
    That's wide open for abuse.
    Another is, when you use the argument gay marriage is OK because they love each other, where do you draw the line and why... if you move it for gays, why not for others in love?

    Mother and Daughter?
    Mother and Granddaughter?
    Father and son?
    Father and grandson?
    Father and daughter?
    Mother and son?
    Under aged?
    Cousins?

    For a start...

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  4. #44
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Yes.

    Because free speech is a right, and any two (or more, even) people can claim they are married.
    Even if there are no religious or civil ceremonies performed, who is to say they are not?
    Unless you legally prohibit people from stating they are married unless some religious or civil ceremony is performed (which would violate their right to free speech).

    For that matter, two someones could start calling marriage some random word, like "icklzra", and start claiming they had been "icklzraed".

    What's the difference?

    This argument probably has some holes in it, but my sinuses are not fully healthy atm and it may be affecting my brain.
    Education.

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  5. #45
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Yes.

    Because free speech is a right, and any two (or more, even) people can claim they are married.
    Even if there are no religious or civil ceremonies performed, who is to say they are not?
    Unless you legally prohibit people from stating they are married unless some religious or civil ceremony is performed (which would violate their right to free speech).

    For that matter, two someones could start calling marriage some random word, like "icklzra", and start claiming they had been "icklzraed".

    What's the difference?

    This argument probably has some holes in it, but my sinuses are not fully healthy atm and it may be affecting my brain.
    Actually it is the same reasoning that protects people that burn the American flag. If an act such as burning the American flag is considered free speech then wouldn't an act such as being married fall into the same catagory?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  6. #46
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    That's wide open for abuse.
    Another is, when you use the argument gay marriage is OK because they love each other, where do you draw the line and why... if you move it for gays, why not for others in love?

    Mother and Daughter?
    Mother and Granddaughter?
    Father and son?
    Father and grandson?
    Father and daughter?
    Mother and son?
    Under aged?
    Cousins?

    For a start...

    .
    Incest has not been allowed for two reasons.

    1: Because of genetic concerns. Any resultant baby has a higher chance of being deformed either physically or mentally. Such a thing would be detriment to society. Therefore it would not be allowed.

    2: Because of the closeness that family members share it is easy for the older person to take advantage of such a situation and in essence brainwash the younger person. Brainwashing takes away ones freedom to choose of their own volition. Even though they may think it is of their own volition it is not.

    Underage would not be allowed because we consider those that are of a certain age (under 18) to not be mentally competant enough to make any sort of decision of the kind of magnitude that marriage comes with. Since a condition of being married, or entering into any sort of contract, requires that a person know and understand all implications someone that is underage would not be allowed to enter into it.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #47
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    That's wide open for abuse.
    Another is, when you use the argument gay marriage is OK because they love each other, where do you draw the line and why... if you move it for gays, why not for others in love?

    Mother and Daughter?
    Mother and Granddaughter?
    Father and son?
    Father and grandson?
    Father and daughter?
    Mother and son?
    Under aged?
    Cousins?

    For a start...

    .
    For one thing, it's a legal contract so therefore anyone who is underage cannot take part because they cannot legally enter into contracts. Otherwise, most of the rest fall under social taboos, mostly from the days when offspring between close family members had a decent chance of being defective. With modern medical technology, that's not quite the problem that it once was. It would probably be a bitter pill to swallow for most people, just because it is such a long-time taboo, but anyone who is going to engage in it is going to do so whether they are married or not, so really, I don't have an incredibly massive problem with it, other than the automatic "ewww" factor that we've been raised with.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #48
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    For one thing, it's a legal contract so therefore anyone who is underage cannot take part because they cannot legally enter into contracts.
    Not true, judicial emancipation or a parent signing a waiver to allow underaged teens around 17 or so and marriage is allowed in many states.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #49
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Simple question. Do you consider marriage to be a right
    Contract is a right.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #50
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Not true, judicial emancipation or a parent signing a waiver to allow underaged teens around 17 or so and marriage is allowed in many states.
    Last I knew, it could be done as young as 13 in some states, although that could have changed. But you're still getting a legal adult to make the contract and there are limitations. Certainly an emancipated minor is considered to be an adult in most ways and therefore can enter into legal contracts.

    These are all exceptions, certainly not the rule.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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