View Poll Results: Is marriage a right?

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  • Yes.

    25 43.10%
  • No.

    33 56.90%
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Thread: Is marriage a right?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Nope, marriage is a religious rite that pre-dates any modern law, contract law, and even most religions, including christianity. That said, since marriage is a religious function, under U.S. constitutional law it is automatically an individual right under the first amendment. The government has hijacked that and turned it over to contract law so that it could be taxed and regulated. You are supposed to have the right to seek it out IF a religion will perform the ceremony, you do not have a right to force a religion to.
    that's about how i see it!!

    thank you!!

    mtm1963

  2. #32
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    As long as government is handing out benefits and privileges with tax dollars, then marriage is a right and must be extended to all consenting adults in whatever combination they wish.
    This is incorrect. Government hands out benefits and privileges to single mothers, children, and the permanently disabled. That doesn't mean that it has to give those same privileges to everyone. Government has the authority to take particular privileges and give them to groups that it believes deserve those benefits.

    Get government out of the equation, then marriage is nothing more than free association with rules determined by whatever groups and organizations people associate with; and hence, not a right.
    This is clearly the best solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    However, the 14th Amendment provides us with the Equal Protection Clause that demands that "no state shall... deny a person in it's jurisdiction equal protection of the laws." Under the Constitution, that limits the limitations that the government can place on marriage. For instance, the government cannot encourage social contracts for only marriages of people of the same race. Therefore, the government should not discourage social contracts for marriages of people of the same gender.
    It's very dubious whether this applies to gay marriage for a multitude of reasons.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is incorrect. Government hands out benefits and privileges to single mothers, children, and the permanently disabled. That doesn't mean that it has to give those same privileges to everyone. Government has the authority to take particular privileges and give them to groups that it believes deserve those benefits.
    All other factors being equal, does government deny benefits to single mothers, children and the permanently disabled because they're gay?

  4. #34
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    All other factors being equal, does government deny benefits to single mothers, children and the permanently disabled because they're gay?
    No, because whether or not those individuals are gay is unrelated to the particular social aims that the government is trying to incentivize.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #35
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Ya know why divorces cost so much??---cause they are worth every dime.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

  6. #36
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Marriage isn't a "right" per se, but it is a socially expected act and as such, is going to continue whether supported by the government or not. However, equality is most certainly a "right" as defined in our founding documents so limiting marriage to one group of people and restricting it in another is a plain violation of that equality standard.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #37
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Okay, so it seems we're hung up on a definition. I'd argue that while marriage has its roots in religion, those roots go back to a times when there was no distinction between religion and law. Religion WAS the law in many case. In places were religion and law were distinct, the law was immediately used to enforce this "rite."
    All laws have a basis in morality, be that religion or cultural normative behaviors, that being said, the rite of marriage is just that, it is a sacrament in the christian religion, not familiar with the synonyms from other beliefs, but either way, "civil marriage" as in a justice of the peace ceremony is not a religious function, rather that of a civil law creation, that being said, there need to be two distinctions, that of a civil union or marriage. Justice of the peace ceremonies should be recognized as civil unions, in a twist, legally, so should sanctified marriages, that would clear up much confusion, a marriage and a civil union are similar, the difference is who performs the ceremony. Now, to further the argument, if it is the case that a legal recognition is required, something I firmly hold that the government should have little business in, if it came down to a marriage and civil union falling under the exact same catagory, then the equal protections clause of the U.S. Constitution is a factor, and all citizens and guests of our country would fall under the required protections therein.

    As for modern day marriage, we're talking about two distinct things--marriage as a religious ceremony and marriage as a contract. I don't believe that we have an argument here beyond the already well-worn discussion about "marriage vs. civil union," but the OP already suggests that creating a bright line distinction between these is highly unlikely. I hate getting bogged down in semantic arguments. I'd stipulate that "marriage," in the context of a discussion about "rights" has to be a legal concept.
    Not really, marriage is a specific thing, as is a civil union.

    I don't think anyone wants to force churches to violate their tenets by forcing anyone to perform a rite that doesn't make sense within that particular religion.
    You would be surprised what others would force upon people they disagree with.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Marriage ensures paternity, codifies inheritance of property, and reduces tribal friction by placing otherwise available young women off limits. Any religious connotations are relatively incidental, pursuant to churches extending social control.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    No, it's a form of torture.

    It's not American to torture and we must stop letting innocent people from getting married.

  10. #40
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    All laws have a basis in morality, be that religion or cultural normative behaviors, that being said, the rite of marriage is just that, it is a sacrament in the christian religion, not familiar with the synonyms from other beliefs, but either way, "civil marriage" as in a justice of the peace ceremony is not a religious function, rather that of a civil law creation, that being said, there need to be two distinctions, that of a civil union or marriage. Justice of the peace ceremonies should be recognized as civil unions, in a twist, legally, so should sanctified marriages, that would clear up much confusion, a marriage and a civil union are similar, the difference is who performs the ceremony. Now, to further the argument, if it is the case that a legal recognition is required, something I firmly hold that the government should have little business in, if it came down to a marriage and civil union falling under the exact same catagory, then the equal protections clause of the U.S. Constitution is a factor, and all citizens and guests of our country would fall under the required protections therein.
    I have no particular problem with this idea, but I don't think it will create the distinction you're looking for, and I'm not sure it's legal.

    First, what you suggest is pretty much exactly what gay marriage advocates want, since under your idea, gays could get married. You can go to a church that doesn't marry people of the same sex to each other. Another person can go to (even start) a church that does recognize same sex marriage. Both of you get ceremonies, both of you would be "married." There are very few requirements under the law to be recognized as a church or as clergy--a good thing since we don't want government determining the difference between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" faiths. There might be churches that exist for the sole purpose of same sex marriage.

    Is that what you're looking for?

    Not really, marriage is a specific thing, as is a civil union.
    And apparently the only difference is that one is sanctified by a "church" and one is not. I'm not sure the law has any business in that argument. Which leaves us with everyone's having a "civil union" and some choosing to call that union "marriage." What's to stop someone calling his/her relationship a "marriage" if they wish? Is that a question for the law?
    You would be surprised what others would force upon people they disagree with.
    No, I wouldn't be surprised, but I asked you for some backing to your claim and you've given none. A general suspicion of all humanity means little.

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