View Poll Results: Is marriage a right?

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  • Yes.

    25 43.10%
  • No.

    33 56.90%
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Thread: Is marriage a right?

  1. #21
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    If it were nothing worthwhile-nothing more than a contract--why are there 1138 priveleges that come along with it?
    Because those "Privilages" are due to hetrosexuals who enter into this contract, as such since all are created equal it would be discrimination not to permit those privilages to a certain group who also enterd into this contract based solely on the gender of the parties.

  2. #22
    Sage
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The government does not convey any special tax or administrative benefits on you for pissing or breathing air because those things are natural and necessary human functions. The government conveys special tax and administrative benefits on married couples because it wants to encourage social contracts that it deems beneficial to society. If the government wants to place limitations on the types of contracts that will receive those special benefits, it is free to do so, provided that those limitations comply with the Constitution.
    However, the 14th Amendment provides us with the Equal Protection Clause that demands that "no state shall... deny a person in it's jurisdiction equal protection of the laws." Under the Constitution, that limits the limitations that the government can place on marriage. For instance, the government cannot encourage social contracts for only marriages of people of the same race. Therefore, the government should not discourage social contracts for marriages of people of the same gender.

  3. #23
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    As long as government is handing out benefits and privileges with tax dollars, then marriage is a right and must be extended to all consenting adults in whatever combination they wish.

    Get government out of the equation, then marriage is nothing more than free association with rules determined by whatever groups and organizations people associate with; and hence, not a right.
    Marraige is a game of two halves, a civil and a religious side. One can't have one without the other.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    Marraige is a game of two halves, a civil and a religious side. One can't have one without the other.
    So atheists aren't allowed to get married?

  5. #25
    Klattu Verata Nicto
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    However, the 14th Amendment provides us with the Equal Protection Clause that demands that "no state shall... deny a person in it's jurisdiction equal protection of the laws." Under the Constitution, that limits the limitations that the government can place on marriage. For instance, the government cannot encourage social contracts for only marriages of people of the same race. Therefore, the government should not discourage social contracts for marriages of people of the same gender.
    Bolded is a critical point. There is no way that the government can enforce any marriage laws without interfering with at least one religion or group of people, so therefore any way you slice it, they have overstepped their grounds.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #26
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The idea of freedom of religion is at the core of the entire arguement. Religions are exempted from many things within the law because of very specific core beliefs held within. This is at the heart of the first amendment itself. All religions have some form of marriage ceremony and marriage is a religious rite, civil marriages, while technically called that are nothing more than recognized civil unions. The rite aspect of marriage is what makes it a right.

    Nope, you have to get a license to get married, which is why it can be tried in civil court. That is law which is directly against the first. Marriage is a covenant, not a true contract, that was a failing years ago in an effort to make more tax dollars. Ask yourself why. Then ask yourself how governments got to license a religious ceremony, there is plenty of good reading on the subject. The rite predates any law, the first amendment of the constitution predates any law regulating marriage, thus the laws are not within the true spirit of the constitution as they civilly regulate something that is protected as religious.
    Okay, so it seems we're hung up on a definition. I'd argue that while marriage has its roots in religion, those roots go back to a times when there was no distinction between religion and law. Religion WAS the law in many case. In places were religion and law were distinct, the law was immediately used to enforce this "rite."

    As for modern day marriage, we're talking about two distinct things--marriage as a religious ceremony and marriage as a contract. I don't believe that we have an argument here beyond the already well-worn discussion about "marriage vs. civil union," but the OP already suggests that creating a bright line distinction between these is highly unlikely. I hate getting bogged down in semantic arguments. I'd stipulate that "marriage," in the context of a discussion about "rights" has to be a legal concept.

    I don't think anyone wants to force churches to violate their tenets by forcing anyone to perform a rite that doesn't make sense within that particular religion.

  7. #27
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    I don't think anyone wants to force churches to violate their tenets by forcing anyone to perform a rite that doesn't make sense within that particular religion.
    So why are we preventing churches that see nothing wrong with gay marriages from being able to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples?

  8. #28
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So why are we preventing churches that see nothing wrong with gay marriages from being able to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples?
    We aren't. It's just that, at this moment, those marriage ceremonies don't have the force of law in most states.

    But it's important to remember that the whole question of "rights" is a matter for the courts to decide, based on the Constitution. This question hasn't received a full airing before the courts, but it will.

  9. #29
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So atheists aren't allowed to get married?
    Depends on what you deffine a marraige to be. In effect both civil contracts and religious ceremonies (registered and licenced to perform the legal side of things) are the same things, but for some reason the religious among us wish to own the term "Marraige".

    So I suppose the answer is as far as an athiest and the law is concerned they are married, but as far as a church is concerned, they aren't.

    Confused yet?

  10. #30
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So why are we preventing churches that see nothing wrong with gay marriages from being able to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples?
    You can't. And you aren't. However the civil side of the ceremony can't happen and therfor a civil partnership wasn't performed in the eyes of the law.

    Interestingly, strictly speaking, a divorcee can't get remarried in a Catholic church without getting an annulment, for much the same reason. Only the other way around.

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