View Poll Results: Is marriage a right?

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  • Yes.

    25 43.10%
  • No.

    33 56.90%
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Thread: Is marriage a right?

  1. #141
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    To all equivalent people
    The claim that was made did not include this qualifier. My statement stands.
    Of course not, they're not part of the society and rights are granted by society. Is this the best you can do?
    What's that? You agree that MOST, not ALL, people have the right to vote when they turn 18? Thank you.

  2. #142
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The claim that was made did not include this qualifier. My statement stands.
    Your evasions here are the very person of sophistry.

  3. #143
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Your evasions here are the very person of sophistry.
    I haven't evaded anything. My statement, that marriage is a privilege and that EP dictates that a privilege, if offered at all, must be offered to MOST people, has been proven true.

  4. #144
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I haven't evaded anything. My statement, that marriage is a privilege and that EP dictates that a privilege, if offered at all, must be offered to MOST people, has been proven true.
    But your qualification doesn't matter, since the status of "most" isn't haphazard--it's about cause. Denying equal protection should require proving there is a reason not to offer it. You seem to think this point releases you from any further argument--it does not.

  5. #145
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    But your qualification doesn't matter...
    It does when -you- want to argue that EP guarantees equal access for ALL people to state-granetd privileges. Clearly, it does not, and so, the statement that it guarantees access to MOST people is correct.
    Denying equal protection should require proving there is a reason not to offer it.
    In both of the cases I mentioned, said proof has been given.
    You seem to think this point releases you from any further argument--it does not.
    I have no need to make any further argument -- both of my points have been shown to be sound.

  6. #146
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It does when -you- want to argue that EP guarantees equal access for ALL people to state-granetd privileges. Clearly, it does not, and so, the statement that it guarantees access to MOST people is correct.
    Sophistry = making arguments on the minutiae of language in order to avoid the substance of an argument.
    In both of the cases I mentioned, said proof has been given.
    Tell you what....cite the post numbers and I'll see if you're right.
    I have no need to make any further argument -- both of my points have been shown to be sound.
    Okay...this is self-satisfied sophistry.

  7. #147
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Sophistry = making arguments on the minutiae of language in order to avoid the substance of an argument.
    Sorry that you do not see the need to be accurate in your discussions.
    Fact remains that:
    -Marriage is a privilege, not a right;
    -EP guarantees access for MOST, not ALL, people.
    Tell you what....cite the post numbers and I'll see if you're right.[
    I cted two examples where EP does not guarantee access to ALL people:
    Minors, various instances
    Non-citizens, voting
    Okay...this is self-satisfied sophistry.
    What other argument do you think I need to make, and why?

  8. #148
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sorry that you do not see the need to be accurate in your discussions.
    Fact remains that:
    -Marriage is a privilege, not a right;
    -EP guarantees access for MOST, not ALL, people.

    I cted two examples where EP does not guarantee access to ALL people:
    Minors, various instances
    Non-citizens, voting
    Yes, and I (along with others) showed why your examples are not analogous to SSM. You haven't responded to further justify why it is analogous, you just propound your position.

    What other argument do you think I need to make, and why?
    You have to show what public good comes from not making opposite-sex and same-sex marriage equivalent. In these discussions, we hear lots of vague references to "moral decay" and "undermining sanctity" and the need to preserve traditional institutions "as is," but I have yet to hear an actual, tangible reason that equal protection should not be granted in this case. There are reasons we do not grant all citizenship rights to minors or to non-citizens. There are no reasons we should not grant equal protection of the laws to LGBT people.

  9. #149
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Yes, and I (along with others) showed why your examples are not analogous to SSM. You haven't responded to further justify why it is analogous, you just propound your position.
    Irrelevant.
    The fact is that EP does not in any way guarantee that if anyone is afforded a privilege by a state, then ALL people MUST be offered that same privilege.
    This is -undeiniably- true, and nothing that you or anyone else has said changes this in any way.
    You have to show what public good comes from not making opposite-sex and same-sex marriage equivalent.
    Why do I have to show this?
    There are reasons we do not grant all [privileges] to minors or to non-citizens.
    Please note that (with the correction noted in [], reminding you that privileges, not rights, are -granted- by the state) you are agreeing with my uppermost statement...

  10. #150
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Irrelevant.
    The fact is that EP does not in any way guarantee that if anyone is afforded a privilege by a state, then ALL people MUST be offered that same privilege.
    This is -undeiniably- true, and nothing that you or anyone else has said changes this in any way.
    So--to repeat--on what basis are they do be denied such a privilege? Your whim? The desires of the majority?

    Give me an example of a privilege that is denied a whole group of people for which there is NOT a tangible reason.

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