View Poll Results: Is marriage a right?

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  • Yes.

    25 43.10%
  • No.

    33 56.90%
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Thread: Is marriage a right?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Funny, there were people who considered slavery to be part of their religion, I guess we ought to rescind civil rights and reinstate slavery, huh?
    Slavery causes harm and loss of freedom/civil liberty to large numbers of people.

    Marriage does not (at least not directly ).

    Perhaps I should clarify my statement: "What I AM against is the creation of laws to regulate something many persons consider part of their religion. Unless, of course, said something causes harm to others without their consent."

    I would not take much issue, personally, if gay marriage were made legal in all 50 states. I might not prefer it, due to lingering training in my formative years, but it wouldn't really bother me all that much.

    However, as I view the institution of marriage as a religious one, I have issue with regulations upon it being made by civil governments. Barring, of course, indirect ones, such as those preventing people from performing human sacrifice during a marriage ceremony. (I assume there are such).
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  2. #102
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    The issue of civil performance of same sex marriage presents no threat to archaic religious ceremonies and customs.

    If some bigots running business..er...church, don't want to marry same sex couples, they don't have to.

    Simple as that.

    The issue is the state recognition of the validity of the contract when presented to the civil authorities.

    That's it.

    Some doesn't like same sex marriage? Well, they'll have to marry someone from the other sex.

    How simple can it get?

  3. #103
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Marriage is not a right.

    Denying someone the ability to marry because of their sexual orientation is a self-defeating religious ploy that further alienates the religious right and makes it seem even more and more exclusive that it usually comes across as.


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  4. #104
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    I have never had a relationship that i felt the government needed to be involed in,
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

  5. #105
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Marriage is not a right.

    Denying someone the ability to marry because of their sexual orientation is a self-defeating religious ploy that further alienates the religious right and makes it seem even more and more exclusive that it usually comes across as.



    The "religious right"?

    You mean besides the fact that at a minimum, 22% of the Messiah voters in California cast ballots in favor of the bigoted Proposition 8? You mean that wing of the "religious right"?

  6. #106
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The "religious right"?

    You mean besides the fact that at a minimum, 22% of the Messiah voters in California cast ballots in favor of the bigoted Proposition 8? You mean that wing of the "religious right"?
    Not going to engage in informal discourse with someone as narrow minded as this. The religious African American community voted prop 8 down, and it would be conducive that they would also vote republican. The fact that they voted down prop 8 still means that they are more conservative, regardless of ethnicity or them being "Messiah voters". What an ignorant statement
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Not going to engage in informal discourse with someone as narrow minded as this.
    Naturally not.

    I just cited an irrefutable fact, a fact that refutes your contention that the anti-gay marriage bigots are solely in the so-called "religious right".

    You don't want to address that, so your going to claim the person refuting your moronic statement is "narrow minded".

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    The religious African American community voted prop 8 down,
    Not possible, considering the numbers of pro-Obama votes that had to be cast to make the Prop 8 numbers consistent with the Obama/McCain numbers.

    Good try, but the electoral data disproves what you said.

    Besides, the African American religious community is bigoted, unless you're trying to ignore the Church Obama attended for two decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    and it would be conducive that they would also vote republican.
    Yeah, that argument didn't work.

    Keep trying.

    22% or more of the Obama bigots voted for Proposition 8.


    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    The fact that they voted down prop 8 still means that they are more conservative, regardless of ethnicity or them being "Messiah voters". What an ignorant statement
    Hmmmm.

    Let's have a mini-poll here.

    How many think we should inform Z3n that if he knew anything about what he was babbling about, he'd know that the Yes vote on Prop 8 was the anti-gay marriage vote?

    The Obama voters PASSED Prop 8.

    Should we tell him, or let him remain ignorant?

  8. #108
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    However, as I view the institution of marriage as a religious one, I have issue with regulations upon it being made by civil governments. Barring, of course, indirect ones, such as those preventing people from performing human sacrifice during a marriage ceremony. (I assume there are such).
    You can view it any way you want, but guess what? We have a secular state, thus any religious arguments you make are automatically invalid. Further, whether you like the legal institution of marriage or not, it's already in place and not going away, therefore we're not talking about creating new laws, but in equalizing the existing laws already on the books. We did that for voting, we did that for civil rights, it's something that needs to happen for marriage as well.

    You're just blowing into the wind.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    You are making what de Toqueville called "a distinction without a difference."
    Ah - you dont understand that there IS a difference between a right and a privilege. That explains everything.

    A right is something youcan do absent any grant from the state.
    A privilege is something you can only do if the state creates a mechanism to allow it.

    Tell you what--explain to me how the right of equal protection doesn't make marriage a right...
    Quite simple:
    You can only get married because the state created the insituton of marriage.
    The fact that the right to equal protection necessitates that the state can only deny you that privilge under certain certain cirsumtances doesn't turn that privilege into a right it simple means that if the state offers the privilege to anyone, it must also offer it to most everyone else.

    Its no diffferent than voting for President -- if the state extends the privilege to vote to anyone, because of equal protection, it has to extend it to most everyone. If the state does not extend that privilege, you donlt get to vote, and as such, voting for President is not a right.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is marriage a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You can view it any way you want, but guess what? We have a secular state, thus any religious arguments you make are automatically invalid.
    It would seem that the reverse is also true...secular arguments are automatically invalid when made against a religious entity.

    But I wasn't attempting to make a religious argument.

    I was attempting to point out that some religions might be unwilling, per their beliefs, to accept a marriage between two persons of the same sex as a valid/legal one.
    Regardless of the secularity or non-secularity of the word, if they considered it part of their religion…It seemed to me that, under that premise, making same-sex marriage legal would violate the 1st amendment.

    However, I suppose that if my argument were valid, persons of a given persuasion (in this case, opposition to same-sex marriage) could at any time form a religion and claim whatever term was in use violated their religious beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Further, whether you like the legal institution of marriage or not, it's already in place and not going away, therefore we're not talking about creating new laws, but in equalizing the existing laws already on the books. We did that for voting, we did that for civil rights, it's something that needs to happen for marriage as well.
    I am all for equalizing the existing laws. In fact, I thought that is what I was arguing for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You're just blowing into the wind.
    Perhaps.
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    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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