View Poll Results: Should we legalize pot?

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  • yes

    110 79.71%
  • no

    24 17.39%
  • I forget

    4 2.90%
  • bang a gong

    3 2.17%
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Thread: Should marijuana be legalized?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It is the old causation versus correlation argument:



    In my experience, and in discussions with other users of marijuana, marijuana use is often a self-medication situation where other previous diseases are dealt with. That this often is the case with depression and schizophrenia should be no surprise as diagnosis and treatment can be difficult, but self-medication can be relieving.

    I strenuously object to the idea that smoking pot causes these diseases.
    The findings applied to heavy cannabis users

    Frequent cannabis use can trigger depression, a study suggests.
    Researchers have also found further evidence the drug can significantly increase the risk of schizophrenia.

    The risks are outlined in three papers in the latest issue of the British Medical Journal.




    Cannabis is not a risk-free drug. The public needs to understand the potential dangers of triggering mental illness.

    Cliff Prior, Rethink
    Researchers say their findings highlight the need for measures to reduce frequent and heavy use of cannabis.
    The first paper, by doctors in Australia, found frequent cannabis use among teenage girls in particular can trigger depression.

    Their seven-year study of 1,600 teenage girls found girls who used the drug everyday were five times more likely to become depressed and suffer from anxiety compared to those who did not use the drug.

    Those who used the drug at least once every week were twice as likely to develop depression compared to non-users.

    A second study, by doctors in Sweden, confirmed previous research suggesting that cannabis can increase the risk of developing depression.

    Their study of more than 50,000 men found those who had smoked the drug in the late 1960s were 30% more likely to have developed schizophrenia

    BBC NEWS | Health | Cannabis link to depression

    The evidence is there no matter how much you object.

  2. #212
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    Well at least you agree that pot is not a completly benign drug.
    There has not been a great deal of research on the long term use of cannabis but there seems to be , as I said, documented evidence to show that cannabis can exacerbate mental illness..its not cut and dried but its there.
    You are certainly correct that it seems the damage seems far worse in young people.
    MY position is grounded in reality, and the reality is that prohibition does more harm than good.

    Compared to other substances one could make an argument that marijuana is relatively benign. This is a moot point though.

    My reasons for being anti-prohibition is actually rooted in the belief that drugs as a whole are too dangerous to be left uncontrolled.

    Prohibition does nothing but cause problems, violence, crime, youth exposure, porous borders, siphoning of billions out of our country, ect, ect, ect.

    It does nothing to deal with our drug problem, this exists and will exist regardless of legal status, if anything it exacerbates the problem by spreading misinformation, and exposing people to drugs before they are old enough to make responsible reasoned choices.

    The reasons for ending prohibition are because of the allure and the danger of the drugs, it is too great to be left in the hands of whatever foreign criminal group happens to have clawed and shot their way to the top of the ladder.

    I want drugs legal because they are dangerous. Allowing something this dangerous to be controlled by ruthless criminals is foolish and does not solve any problems, yet it creates huge problems.

    I want drugs legal so that we deal with our drug problem. We are doing no such thing right now, we have created a behemoth of a criminal problem, but for what effect??
    Last edited by marduc; 01-10-10 at 11:14 PM.
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  3. #213
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    MY position is grounded in reality, I do not need to distort or manipulate information.

    Compared to other substances one could make an argument that marijuana is relatively benign. This is a moot point though.

    My reasons for being anti-prohibition is actually rooted in the belief that drugs as a whole are too dangerous to be left unregulated.

    Prohibition does nothing but cause problems, violence, crime, youth exposure, porous borders, siphoning of billions out of our country, ect, ect, ect.

    It does nothing to deal with our drug problem, this exists and will exist regardless of legal status, if anything it exacerbates the problem by spreading misinformation, and exposing people to drugs before they are old enough to make responsible reasoned choices.

    The reasons for ending prohibition are because of the allure and the danger of the drugs, it is too great to be left in the hands of whatever foreign criminal group happens to have clawed and shot their way to the top of the ladder.

    I want drugs legal because they are dangerous. Allowing something this dangerous to be controlled by ruthless criminals is foolish and does not solve any problems, yet it creates huge problems.

    I want drugs legal so that we deal with our drug problem. We are doing no such thing right now, we have created a behemoth of a criminal problem, but for what effect??
    Why not go the Singapore,Malaysia and Chinese route and make drug dealing a capital punishment.
    Maybe less people would be executed than the people who would die by the drugs and the violence that they create.
    Just a thought to debate.

  4. #214
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    Why not go the Singapore,Malaysia and Chinese route and make drug dealing a capital punishment.
    Maybe less people would be executed than the people who would die by the drugs and the violence that they create.
    Just a thought to debate.
    Abraham Lincoln answered that question for you already. Read my signature.
    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
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  5. #215
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Abraham Lincoln answered that question for you already. Read my signature.
    Fine words dont solve the problem.
    If you allow all drugs to be legalised you will have a strung out stoned druggies for citizens,.IMO
    If you ban drugs you have a organised criminals making money from what should be a non crime in your opinion.

  6. #216
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    Fine words dont solve the problem.
    No they do not, but they do answer the question you posed to me.

    I have been saying this repeatedly, after we get a grip on our criminal problem caused by prohibition, we will then be in a position to deal with our DRUG problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angrybeaver
    If you allow all drugs to be legalised you will have a strung out stoned druggies for citizens,.IMO
    That is, as you stated, your opinion, it is not backed by real life data however. I could list a ton of studies and a ton of quotes backing the position that legal status of drugs have little to NO impact on rates of usage, but I will just provide one.

    if you are really wanting to be honest in your evaluation of this issue look here:

    Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies | Glenn Greenwald | Cato Institute: White Paper

    If you want to take the lazy way out then just read the intro and the conclusion of the paper that is at that link, although in its entirety it is very revealing.

    Since 2001 All drugs have been decriminalized in Portugal. This includes Heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, you name it, they ALL can be used with ZERO legal repercussions. 9 years for the drug crazed zombification of their nation to develop, and it did not occur, the drug problem did not get worse, it got BETTER, significantly so.

    If you want to do even more leg work, look at Swiss heroin distribution (as an interesting aside there is a thread here at DP wondering why they have the lowest crime rate of any nation ), or even at the more recent UK model of government sanctioned heroin distribution, look at how both countries are ecstatic over how successful the programs are at actually dealing with and addressing the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Angrybeaver
    If you ban drugs you have a organised criminals making money from what should be a non crime in your opinion.
    Not just my opinion, but yes, we are making crimes out of things that are not crimes - just as Abe points out in my signature with his "Fine words"
    Last edited by marduc; 01-11-10 at 03:29 AM.
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  7. #217
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    The findings applied to heavy cannabis users
    They apply specifically to people who were heavy users in their adolescence:
    "The first paper, by doctors in Australia, found frequent cannabis use among teenage girls in particular can trigger depression."
    "Their study of more than 50,000 men found those who had smoked the drug in the late 1960s were 30% more likely to have developed schizophrenia"


    Also note that the way it is phrased:
    "Frequent cannabis use can trigger depression, a study suggests."

    Both have been pointed out by marduc and myself earlier.
    Last edited by roderic; 01-11-10 at 06:21 AM.
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  8. #218
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post
    They apply specifically to people who were heavy users in their adolescence:
    "The first paper, by doctors in Australia, found frequent cannabis use among teenage girls in particular can trigger depression."
    "Their study of more than 50,000 men found those who had smoked the drug in the late 1960s were 30% more likely to have developed schizophrenia"


    Also note that the way it is phrased:
    "Frequent cannabis use can trigger depression, a study suggests."

    Both have been pointed out by marduc and myself earlier.
    I would hazard guess and say most tokers started in adolescence.
    What we havent got is strong data of long term use in adulthood.
    Do you think that after a certain age cannabis completely stops harming you..?
    Both you and marduc pointed out that frequent use can trigger depression but others denies it.
    Because you two admit this does it mean I must never mention again?

  9. #219
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    No they do not, but they do answer the question you posed to me.

    I have been saying this repeatedly, after we get a grip on our criminal problem caused by prohibition, we will then be in a position to deal with our DRUG problem.



    That is, as you stated, your opinion, it is not backed by real life data however. I could list a ton of studies and a ton of quotes backing the position that legal status of drugs have little to NO impact on rates of usage, but I will just provide one.

    if you are really wanting to be honest in your evaluation of this issue look here:

    Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies | Glenn Greenwald | Cato Institute: White Paper

    If you want to take the lazy way out then just read the intro and the conclusion of the paper that is at that link, although in its entirety it is very revealing.

    Since 2001 All drugs have been decriminalized in Portugal. This includes Heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, you name it, they ALL can be used with ZERO legal repercussions. 9 years for the drug crazed zombification of their nation to develop, and it did not occur, the drug problem did not get worse, it got BETTER, significantly so.

    If you want to do even more leg work, look at Swiss heroin distribution (as an interesting aside there is a thread here at DP wondering why they have the lowest crime rate of any nation ), or even at the more recent UK model of government sanctioned heroin distribution, look at how both countries are ecstatic over how successful the programs are at actually dealing with and addressing the problem





    Not just my opinion, but yes, we are making crimes out of things that are not crimes - just as Abe points out in my signature with his "Fine words"


    I've done some leg work and the first article I found about Switzerland reveals that they are giving free heroin to ADDICTS and they believe that cannabis should still be banned.

    Not exactly the drug utopia that you suggested.

    BBC NEWS | Europe | Swiss approve prescription heroin



    Swiss voters have approved a radical health policy that offers prescription heroin to addicts on a permanent basis.

    Final results from the national referendum showed 68% of voters supported the plan.

    The scheme, allowing addicts to inject the drug under medical supervision at a clinic, began in Zurich 14 years ago before spreading across the country.

    But in another referendum vote, 63% of voters rejected the decriminalisation of cannabis.
    The heroin vote was one of a series of referendums held to decide policy on illegal drugs.


    SWISS HEROIN PROGRAMME
    Running since 1994
    Used by 1,300 addicts
    Includes 23 centres nationwide
    Also offers psychiatric counseling


    Radical Swiss plan
    Under the scheme, addicts visit clinics up to twice a day, where they inject the drug under medical supervision. They can also be treated for other medical issues or mental health problems, out correspondent says.

    The policy is described as one of last resort - prescribing addicts with the very drug that caused their problems in the first place - but supporters say it works, and Swiss voters appear to have agreed, the BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Berne says.

    Switzerland will be the first country to include it in government policy.

    Supporters say it has had positive results - getting long-term addicts out of Switzerland's once notorious "needle parks" and reducing drug-related crime.

    Opponents say heroin prescription sends the wrong message to young people and harms the addicts themselves.

    On the cannabis issue, the government had opposed a change to the law.

    Swiss police regularly turn a blind eye to moderate cannabis use.

    But recent studies suggesting that long-term use of the drug may be more harmful than previously thought had looked likely to encourage a "No" to decriminalisation.

    Jo Lang, a Green Party MP from Zug, said he was disappointed that the proposal to change the law on cannabis had failed.

    "People have died from alcohol and heroin, but not from cannabis," said Mr Lang.

  10. #220
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Portugal seems to be trying to reduce the amount of drug use without prosecuting the user which is brilliant and if can be done would of course be far better than prohibition but the people on this thread that want to decriminalise pot do not want to stop using it..they want to use it as much as they like without fear of prosecution.
    So the aim of the portuguese government is different from the premise of this thread.
    But thank you for the Portuguese reference I didnt know about that.

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