View Poll Results: Should we legalize pot?

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  • yes

    110 79.71%
  • no

    24 17.39%
  • I forget

    4 2.90%
  • bang a gong

    3 2.17%
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Thread: Should marijuana be legalized?

  1. #141
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Keep it illegal.

    Kids are gonna get high while driving. And they're going to talk on their cell phones. And all that texting. We need to keep a very serious attitude about drugs and safety at least for the sake of the kids. No legal marijuana, no way.
    Last edited by sazerac; 01-09-10 at 01:02 PM.

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Oh boy another Marijuana thread.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    The responses of those who are against legalization, even after I took the time to address the issue, is a good reflection of the emptiness of their argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    America tried to ban alchohol but it proved impossible.
    Alchohol can be a dangerous drug but we must accept that we cant ban it.
    How is marijuana any different? Marijuana use has increased a huge amount since prohibition was enacted. I'm sure you know this, so I'm interested in hearing what you think the difference is.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    We know about the long term effects of alchohol abuse and we know and can define what alchohol abuse is.
    Cannabis can be a dangerous drug and it is already 'banned'.
    We know that both drugs are dangerous so what good would it do us to have two dangerous legal drugs.
    There is agreat deal of evidence to show that cannabis can exacerbate mental illness but there is not a great deal of evidence of the total effect of long term use and the health problems that it may bring.
    It took quite a few years for the full evidence of how destructive tobacco was to health..those people today who say how dangerous tobacco is probably had fathers or grandfathers that thought smoking 30 a day was fine!

    I never said that smoking a low thc spliff would get you just as wasted as smoking a high thc spliff..just the opposite.
    I said that if we have to legalise cannabis then a compromise would be to make a lower thc bud legal but ban the high thc bud or hash because this is far more dangerous.

    This has caused much consternation in one poster who seems to think a nice
    bit of lower thc hash the same that was about say in the 60s or 70s(enough to get you mellow and a little high) is far more dangerous than white widow or chronic( enough to get you wasted if you either dont know what you are doing or are a heavyweight toker).
    Well, I agree that weed is stronger these days. His point is that if someone's goal is to get high, then they will get high. If they need to smoke 5 joints to get the same effect, that's what they will do-this was the beer/whiskey comparison earlier. I think I understand your point; if marijuana is too strong, then will be dangerously high after smoking one joint. Well, if it were legal, couldn't we label the potency? There's no requirement to smoke an entire joint. On the other hand, who cares how high someone is if they're just going to stay at home and watch tv or whatever?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Marijuana is a cash crop in our county, and it is easy for anyone to obtain a permit to grow and smoke 'medical marijuana.' At the same time, we have huge pot farms grown on National Forest and BLM land, with armed guards which makes hiking and back packing in some areas dangerous.
    Medical marijuana is only legal in certain states. I haven't heard of these National Forest pot farms, but this sounds a little farfetched...do you have a source? Well, actually I don't think it's relevant at all, so don't bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post

    My concern is people driving while stoned and exposing babies and young children to secondary marijuana smoke. For these reasons I'm not in favor of legalizing marijuana.
    I think those who are irresponsible enough to do this are doing it now anyways. I concede that these are worth considering, but even if we take these at face value, is this worse than the negative effects of prohibition? Putting non-violent marijuana smokers in jail exposes people to the worst people in our society, creating criminals. It also takes parents away from their children, leaving single parents and ophans behind. Drug cartels make enormous profits from the illegal status of marijuana. They have no problems resorting to the murder of innocent people to make their money. We need to take this power away from them. As our nation has staggering national debt, struggling schools, inadequate healthcare, etc. we have an opportunity to improve a lot of these problems in both the long and short run by saving money on marijuana prohibition.

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Some say it would benefit the government to tax pot, but my feeling is the big pot farms would still avoid taxes.
    If you think that legal farms would avoid taxes, how do you suppose they would do this? If you are talking about illegal operations, sure, some people will still grow their own, like with moonshine. But, like with moonshine, most people will choose the legal product because they do not have to worry about getting in trouble for using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    I'm talking about exacerbating existing mental illness. I used to work for a program that served mentally ill offenders with substance abuse problems.

    It's not a gateway drug, in that smoking marijuana doesn't lead to abuse of other drugs, however for meth addicts, relapse often begins with marijuana use, which alters judgment and makes returning to the drug of choice more likely.
    Most likely, what happens is that they go back to their old meth dealer, who sells pot as well, and ask him for some weed. Eventually, the dealer says "you sure you don't want some meth?" and convince their old customer to bring back his business as an addict. If weed were available at the gas station, this contact wouldn't occur.


    The alcohol comparison is mostly a side argument. It shows that those against legalization are hypocrites, but we can argue for marijuana legalization on its own. For the sake of argument, let's say weed is as dangerous as you say it is. Do you really think that the costs of usage outweigh the costs of prohibition which I discussed before? To windovervocals, sazerac, Chuz Life, anyone else against legalization, I wrote a long post on page 11. It would be interesting if you responded to each of my points. I know it's long, but I think the issue needs to be considered in its entirety, rather than the "It's dangerous! *plug ears* LALALALALA" approach. I don't mean that with disrespect, except to Chuz Life for the "get stupid" comment, I just mean that I think you guys need to make an argument other than "it's dangerous." What are your thoughts on the negative consequences of prohibition?

    I won't be able to get back until later tonight, so it should be fun to check back up on the mayhem...

  4. #144
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Keep it illegal.

    Kids are gonna get high while driving. And they're going to talk on their cell phones. And all that texting. We need to keep a very serious attitude about drugs and safety at least for the sake of the kids. No legal marijuana, no way.
    Kids (and some adults) are getting high NOW and driving. People talk on their cells phones AND they text while driving.

    None of which is safe or recommended. It is a huge problem - but what to do?

    What would your suggestion be? Make illegal ALL stupid things people could possibly do whilst driving, to make sure we're keeping them safe.

    This would include people drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, eating, shaving, applying makeup, reading, texting, telephoning, playing with their radio knobs, looking at their GPS, picking their nose, yelling at their kids or their spouse, fiddling with the mirrors, not CHECKING their mirrors, driving like they have their head up their ass in general, not using their turn signals... etc...

    The list could go on and on for days.

    Unless you are willing to keep/MAKE all things illegal that people are doing while driving, then your argument holds no water.

    Make driving under the influence (ANY influence) ILLEGAL and punishable by law - just as it is NOW.

    Legalizing marijuana will not exponentially increase those drivers on the road that already are doing just that - same with alcohol. People are taking prescription drugs and driving... should we make illegal prescription meds that warn, "Use caution when operating machinery or driving a motor vehicle" because someone might be abusing it?
    Last edited by TheGirlNextDoor; 01-09-10 at 02:37 PM.
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by modobrofo View Post

    Medical marijuana is only legal in certain states. I haven't heard of these National Forest pot farms, but this sounds a little farfetched...do you have a source? Well, actually I don't think it's relevant at all, so don't bother.
    "So far this fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30, federal agents have raided 487 pot farms on forest-service land, where they destroyed 2.6 million marijuana plants, seized 138 firearms and made 369 arrests on felony drug charges," writes Simon.

    The illegal cultivation presents risks to wayward hikers, who face confrontation by armed guards or injury from booby-traps set to protect plantations, as well as parks themselves. Authorities believe marijuana farmers were responsible for an 88,000-acre fire that burned last month in in California's Los Padres National Forest.
    Cartels clear-cutting U.S. national parks for marijuana plantations

    Relatively few of the marijuana-tenders are caught. At the first sign of trouble, they usually slip away through the brush. That's the main reason these pot farms are on public land: It's easy to cut and run.

    But law enforcement agencies are learning more about these marijuana gardens. For one thing, they're not stand-alone projects. Investigators say pot farms in parks and national forests are often part of larger networks.

    A recent Drug Enforcement Administration investigation of a Mexican crime family's alleged crystal methamphetamine ring led agents to discover that the family also had a marijuana-growing operation on the side. They call it a major enterprise; a Seattle-based DEA agent (anonymous here because he works undercover) says it stretched across several Western states.


    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103866520
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 01-09-10 at 02:52 PM.

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    wind-

    fair enough, but what's your point? you've just pointed out that prohibition leads to people illegally growing crops in national parks and protecting them with guns. how is this an argument against legalization? this is another example of giving money and power to criminals (like cartels) instead of putting it in the hand of responsible parties overseen by the government.

    are you going to address any of my arguments?

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    The pot that is being consumed today is very strong. It has a negative impact on mental illness. Here is an article by the National Institute of Drug Abuse

    "THC acts upon specific sites in the brain, called cannabinoid receptors, kicking off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the “high” that users experience when they smoke marijuana. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. The highest density of cannabinoid receptors are found in parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thoughts, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.1

    Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty in thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.

    Research on the long-term effects of marijuana abuse indicates some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system3 and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine.4 Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse

    Marijuana - InfoFacts - NIDA
    And alcohol's bad for your liver so what?
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 01-09-10 at 05:47 PM.
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Keep it illegal.

    Kids are gonna get high while driving. And they're going to talk on their cell phones. And all that texting. We need to keep a very serious attitude about drugs and safety at least for the sake of the kids. No legal marijuana, no way.
    Drug dealers usually don't check ID
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    There is some paranoia about the dangers of driving while smoking pot. I think driving while on a cell or texting are more dangerous.

    One of the biggest worries out there while driving iare peoople stoned on over the counter cold medicines, especially cough syrup in a yummy cherry flavor.

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Keep it illegal.

    Kids are gonna get high while driving. And they're going to talk on their cell phones. And all that texting. We need to keep a very serious attitude about drugs and safety at least for the sake of the kids. No legal marijuana, no way.
    And no cell phones
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