View Poll Results: Should we legalize pot?

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  • yes

    110 79.71%
  • no

    24 17.39%
  • I forget

    4 2.90%
  • bang a gong

    3 2.17%
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Thread: Should marijuana be legalized?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by modobrofo View Post
    I've read through this thread and have a few points to make. I'll start by addressing this post and will then add on a few thoughts afterwards.

    (After writing this out, it turned out really long...sorry)



    First of all, you have used the argument that "one dangerous drug is enough" a few times, and I think this view is pretty ridiculous. You assert that alcohol and marijuana are both dangerous, and you claim that only one should be legal. If so, why alcohol? It is difficult to argue that it is the lesser of the two evils. If alcohol is more dangerous, surely it should be the illegal substance. If they are equally dangerous, they're statuses should be correspondingly equal. Do you think that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol? I don't think you've addressed this (sorry if you have, please just send your quote if you don't mind).

    Secondly, the potency of marijuana can be measured. If it were legal, I think it would be reasonable (and responsible) to, as with alcohol, display the potency on the packaging. If you are saying that one spliff/joint of ANY potency is enough to get a smoker "wasted," this is a silly argument.



    I think everyone should move on from the absinthe issue. It's just a side argument and not really relevant, especially if there's not agreement on whether or not it is a valid comparison.



    OK, so now the issue of whether or not cannabis is actually "a dangerous dru[g]." I'll try to address the main arguments-let me know if I missed anything. I have citations for some of my points, but I don't want to bother looking them up for everything unless you really want me to...

    1. Psychosis (esp. schizophrenia): There has not been a proven causal relationship between cannabis use and schizophrenia. Studies have found varying, inconclusive results about whether cannabis use can increase the likelihood of schizophrenia, but it seems that it is only a concern for those who are genetically predisposed. For people who have schizophrenia, cannabis use has varying effects. For some, consumption worsens their symptoms, but, for others, consumption relieves negative symptoms of both the condition as well as medication. Also, although cannabis use has increased in recent years, incidence of psychotic disorders (inc. schizophrenia) has not.
    [Prashant Phillips. Soft drug, hard facts. Mental Health Practice; Apr2002, Vol. 5 Issue 7, p25, 1p]

    2. Gateway theory: Despite a correlation between cannabis use and harder drug use, there is no evidence of a causal relationship. General conduct problems and genetic predisposition to substance abuse are far more likely. This is mentioned in the same article I cited before. Just because a heavy drug user once used marijuana, this doesn't mean that using marijuana led to heavier drugs. Most heavy drug users were breast fed-does breast milk lead to heroin use? The only causal element is that the illegal status of marijuana forces people to interact with dealers who often sell harder drugs as well.

    3. Addiction: Marijuana has been shown to not be physically addictive. This means that the human brain does not "crave" THC, like it does with opiates,cocaine, etc. Marijuana may be addicting in the sense that it's enjoyable and some people like to do it as much as possible, but this is the same kind of addiction that people get to video games and potato chips.

    4. Potheads are lazy good-for-nothings: Sure, lots of stoners sit around doing nothing all day, but this is true of plenty of non-stoners as well. It's just the way some people are. There are countless regular users of marijuana who are motivated, successful, brilliant people-Carl Sagan, for example.

    5. Marijuana causes lung cancer: Many studies have actually found that there is no relationship. It has even been found in some studies that marijuana use may decrease likelihood of lung cancer by stimulating the bronchi in the lungs to open up.


    So even if marijuana is "dangerous," should it be illegal? I'll ignore the position held by some that EVERY drug should be legal, even the hard ones like heroin-this is a different argument. The negative effects of marijuana prohibition are far worse than the effects of smoking itself, for both individuals and society.

    There are enormous costs in pursuing marijuana users. Not only does it use money that could be better spent on education, healthcare, infrastructure, national debt, etc, but it also wastes our police officers' time. Rather than busting college kids toking up on Saturday night, police officers ought to be protecting people from burglars, rapists, muggers, etc. These same arguments go for those responsible for prosecuting marijuana offenders. In addition, putting marijuana users in jail is both expensive and risky. Besides the cost that it takes to keep someone in jail, having a guy who has never broken a law in his life, besides smoking weed, hang out with a bunch of real criminals is probably not going to be a great influence. Not only does legalizing marijuana eliminate the costs associated with its prohibition, but it also gives an opportunity to generate revenue via taxes.

    Putting marijuana users in jail strips them of their freedom, tears apart their families, and makes it hard for them to get jobs once they get out. Given the nature of the crime, this is ridiculous.

    Currently, the people making the most money from marijuana prohibition are drug dealers who often resort to violence to distribute their product. Legalization would take this money and power away from these evil people.

    Lethal overdose is impossible.

    Hemp is an incredibly useful material.

    That some people deny the medical uses of marijuana is absurd and hardly worth addressing.


    I probably left a lot out. The main point is this: even if marijuana is harmful, prohibition is far more costly. I realize that this post is pretty much a novel, so thanks to everyone who read it all. I look forward to hearing what others have to say (especially you haters out there)-if anyone has the time to go through this point-by-point, that would be awesome, but I'll take what I can get.



    "Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use... Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce of marihuana."
    - Jimmy Carter

    "The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world."
    - Carl Sagan quote on Marijuana

    "Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could."
    - William F. Buckley Jr.

    "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
    - Albert Einstein quote on Hemp

    "Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction."
    - Bob Marley
    America tried to ban alchohol but it proved impossible.
    Alchohol can be a dangerous drug but we must accept that we cant ban it.
    We know about the long term effects of alchohol abuse and we know and can define what alchohol abuse is.
    Cannabis can be a dangerous drug and it is already 'banned'.
    We know that both drugs are dangerous so what good would it do us to have two dangerous legal drugs.
    There is agreat deal of evidence to show that cannabis can exacerbate mental illness but there is not a great deal of evidence of the total effect of long term use and the health problems that it may bring.
    It took quite a few years for the full evidence of how destructive tobacco was to health..those people today who say how dangerous tobacco is probably had fathers or grandfathers that thought smoking 30 a day was fine!

    I never said that smoking a low thc spliff would get you just as wasted as smoking a high thc spliff..just the opposite.
    I said that if we have to legalise cannabis then a compromise would be to make a lower thc bud legal but ban the high thc bud or hash because this is far more dangerous.

    This has caused much consternation in one poster who seems to think a nice
    bit of lower thc hash the same that was about say in the 60s or 70s(enough to get you mellow and a little high) is far more dangerous than white widow or chronic( enough to get you wasted if you either dont know what you are doing or are a heavyweight toker).

  2. #112
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    low THC marijuana is arguably MORE dangerous in that you have to smoke more of it to get the same effect.

    Which is worse: someone drinking 120 ounces of beer, or someone drinking 15 ounces of Scotch, which is 8 times as concentrated???

    This is like saying an 800 mg motrin is more dangerous than a 400 mg. - If I take (2) 400 mgs, or if I take (1) 800 mg motrin, to get the exact same effect, they are equally as dangerous.

    Of course if you want to play the "high THC content is so much more dangerous" game, then why is there a prescription 100% THC pill available that is touted as a "safer" alternative?

    If 20% THC is so much more dangerous than 5% THC, than 100% THC has to be MUCH MUCH more dangerous than 20%.

    your reasoning is FATALLY flawed. Concentration changes dosage.




    has the same effect as THC? it interacts with the cannabinoid receptors in the brain and causes the same intoxication??

    the effects of absinth are a result of the drug Thujone, which has its own specific effects, it is nothing like a cannabinoid.

    your argument stands as well as a two legged stool.
    You dont seem to remember what you posted, so maybe you are wise not to continue to debate it.

  3. #113
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybeaver View Post
    You dont seem to remember what you posted, so maybe you are wise not to continue to debate it.
    lack of comprehension skills it is then
    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
    Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse

  4. #114
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by modobrofo View Post
    I've read through this thread and have a few points to make. I'll start by addressing this post and will then add on a few thoughts afterwards.

    (After writing this out, it turned out really long...sorry)



    First of all, you have used the argument that "one dangerous drug is enough" a few times, and I think this view is pretty ridiculous. You assert that alcohol and marijuana are both dangerous, and you claim that only one should be legal. If so, why alcohol? It is difficult to argue that it is the lesser of the two evils. If alcohol is more dangerous, surely it should be the illegal substance. If they are equally dangerous, they're statuses should be correspondingly equal. Do you think that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol? I don't think you've addressed this (sorry if you have, please just send your quote if you don't mind).

    Secondly, the potency of marijuana can be measured. If it were legal, I think it would be reasonable (and responsible) to, as with alcohol, display the potency on the packaging. If you are saying that one spliff/joint of ANY potency is enough to get a smoker "wasted," this is a silly argument.



    I think everyone should move on from the absinthe issue. It's just a side argument and not really relevant, especially if there's not agreement on whether or not it is a valid comparison.



    OK, so now the issue of whether or not cannabis is actually "a dangerous dru[g]." I'll try to address the main arguments-let me know if I missed anything. I have citations for some of my points, but I don't want to bother looking them up for everything unless you really want me to...

    1. Psychosis (esp. schizophrenia): There has not been a proven causal relationship between cannabis use and schizophrenia. Studies have found varying, inconclusive results about whether cannabis use can increase the likelihood of schizophrenia, but it seems that it is only a concern for those who are genetically predisposed. For people who have schizophrenia, cannabis use has varying effects. For some, consumption worsens their symptoms, but, for others, consumption relieves negative symptoms of both the condition as well as medication. Also, although cannabis use has increased in recent years, incidence of psychotic disorders (inc. schizophrenia) has not.
    [Prashant Phillips. Soft drug, hard facts. Mental Health Practice; Apr2002, Vol. 5 Issue 7, p25, 1p]

    2. Gateway theory: Despite a correlation between cannabis use and harder drug use, there is no evidence of a causal relationship. General conduct problems and genetic predisposition to substance abuse are far more likely. This is mentioned in the same article I cited before. Just because a heavy drug user once used marijuana, this doesn't mean that using marijuana led to heavier drugs. Most heavy drug users were breast fed-does breast milk lead to heroin use? The only causal element is that the illegal status of marijuana forces people to interact with dealers who often sell harder drugs as well.

    3. Addiction: Marijuana has been shown to not be physically addictive. This means that the human brain does not "crave" THC, like it does with opiates,cocaine, etc. Marijuana may be addicting in the sense that it's enjoyable and some people like to do it as much as possible, but this is the same kind of addiction that people get to video games and potato chips.

    4. Potheads are lazy good-for-nothings: Sure, lots of stoners sit around doing nothing all day, but this is true of plenty of non-stoners as well. It's just the way some people are. There are countless regular users of marijuana who are motivated, successful, brilliant people-Carl Sagan, for example.

    5. Marijuana causes lung cancer: Many studies have actually found that there is no relationship. It has even been found in some studies that marijuana use may decrease likelihood of lung cancer by stimulating the bronchi in the lungs to open up.


    So even if marijuana is "dangerous," should it be illegal? I'll ignore the position held by some that EVERY drug should be legal, even the hard ones like heroin-this is a different argument. The negative effects of marijuana prohibition are far worse than the effects of smoking itself, for both individuals and society.

    There are enormous costs in pursuing marijuana users. Not only does it use money that could be better spent on education, healthcare, infrastructure, national debt, etc, but it also wastes our police officers' time. Rather than busting college kids toking up on Saturday night, police officers ought to be protecting people from burglars, rapists, muggers, etc. These same arguments go for those responsible for prosecuting marijuana offenders. In addition, putting marijuana users in jail is both expensive and risky. Besides the cost that it takes to keep someone in jail, having a guy who has never broken a law in his life, besides smoking weed, hang out with a bunch of real criminals is probably not going to be a great influence. Not only does legalizing marijuana eliminate the costs associated with its prohibition, but it also gives an opportunity to generate revenue via taxes.

    Putting marijuana users in jail strips them of their freedom, tears apart their families, and makes it hard for them to get jobs once they get out. Given the nature of the crime, this is ridiculous.

    Currently, the people making the most money from marijuana prohibition are drug dealers who often resort to violence to distribute their product. Legalization would take this money and power away from these evil people.

    Lethal overdose is impossible.

    Hemp is an incredibly useful material.

    That some people deny the medical uses of marijuana is absurd and hardly worth addressing.


    I probably left a lot out. The main point is this: even if marijuana is harmful, prohibition is far more costly. I realize that this post is pretty much a novel, so thanks to everyone who read it all. I look forward to hearing what others have to say (especially you haters out there)-if anyone has the time to go through this point-by-point, that would be awesome, but I'll take what I can get.



    "Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use... Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce of marihuana."
    - Jimmy Carter

    "The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world."
    - Carl Sagan quote on Marijuana

    "Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could."
    - William F. Buckley Jr.

    "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
    - Albert Einstein quote on Hemp

    "Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction."
    - Bob Marley
    Excellent post. Mega dittos.

  5. #115
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    lack of comprehension skills it is then
    Yes, in your case I think it is, plus a little obtuseness.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Marijuana is a cash crop in our county, and it is easy for anyone to obtain a permit to grow and smoke 'medical marijuana.' At the same time, we have huge pot farms grown on National Forest and BLM land, with armed guards which makes hiking and back packing in some areas dangerous.

    My concern is people driving while stoned and exposing babies and young children to secondary marijuana smoke. For these reasons I'm not in favor of legalizing marijuana.

    Some say it would benefit the government to tax pot, but my feeling is the big pot farms would still avoid taxes.

  7. #117
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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Marijuana is a cash crop in our county, and it is easy for anyone to obtain a permit to grow and smoke 'medical marijuana.' At the same time, we have huge pot farms grown on National Forest and BLM land, with armed guards which makes hiking and back packing in some areas dangerous.

    My concern is people driving while stoned and exposing babies and young children to secondary marijuana smoke. For these reasons I'm not in favor of legalizing marijuana.

    Some say it would benefit the government to tax pot, but my feeling is the big pot farms would still avoid taxes.
    We could make it illegal for them to avoid taxes.......

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    We could make it illegal for them to avoid taxes.......
    It's already illegal for them to grow on federal land. I'm saying that they would continue to do what they're doing.

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    mad Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Excellent post. Mega dittos.
    You know it would save a lot of bandwidth,... if you (and several others) would just click on the "thanks" button beneath a post,... rather than posting something as profound and revealing of your thoughts with an example of brevity and wit,... wrapped up in a seeming superficial display of 'mega-dittos?'

    But I digress.... t'was just an observation that likely wasted even more bandwidth.

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    Re: Should marijuana be legalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    You know it would save a lot of bandwidth,... if you (and several others) would just click on the "thanks" button beneath a post,... rather than posting something as profound and revealing of your thoughts with an example of brevity and wit,... wrapped up in a seeming superficial display of 'mega-dittos?'

    But I digress.... t'was just an observation that likely wasted even more bandwidth.
    Yes, we must help conserve bandwidth.

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