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Who's at fault?

is whaling wrong?


  • Total voters
    38
hunting for food is illegal. and that is precisely what they are doing, and yes, protestors would try to stop them. it's illegal.

No, they're hunting to conduct scientific research.

You can't prove otherwise.

You people need to get the law changed.

I would support that.
 
In a free market, if whales became scarce, then the price would go up, prompting some to catch and maybe raise whales in order to reap the huge profits. After all, if you can get a good supply when prices are high, you stand to make a huge profit. The market will keep the species around.

What happens if you outlaw it? Well obviously raising whales would be impossible logistically. How hard is it to find a whale, let alone a whale farm? So you'll create a black market for whales, and since there is no way to really take advantage of the high prices by increasing the supply, you'll put the animals at the brink of extinction.

Just basically a summary and application of a video from John Stossel I saw once.
 
This was almost certainly an accident caused by the incompetence of the sea shepherd's. They are made of volunteer's without any nautical experience at all. Compounded on that, they undertake maneuvers that would be dangerous even with capable crews. Furthermore, the Japanese ship is far larger and thus less maneuverable. Its unlikely they could deliberately ram the smaller vessel even if they tried. I would suggest that the most likely scenario is shepherds pulled some stupid maneuver right in front of the whaling ship and the Japanese couldn't get out of the way in time.

Pretty much.

I would say the pirates decided their other methods weren't doing enough to keep their television show ratings high and thus decided to refuse to avoid a collision if the opportunity presented itself for that reason.
 
Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner. Instead of ramming fishing vessels, the sea shepherd's should be working to educate the public and get the laws changed. Durr.

The problem is the Sea Pirates and similar eco-cults don't understand how best to save the whales.


What's the problem with the whales today? They're considered a "precious" resource that shouldn't be owned by anyone. Thus, no one owns them, and no one is willing to go out of their way to protect them effectively.

How to fix this?

Capitalism, of course.

Under international law allow pods of whales to be auctioned for commercial ownership. The owners of the pods will be free to use those herds as they wish.

Very few people, and I mean practically no one, who own breeding livestock, will slaughter the entire herd so there's no chance of profit in the next season.

If Green Piece wins the bid, probably in a consortium with the Nature Conservancy, the whales don't get hunted at all.

Any other sensible investor will harvest only enough to maintain stable populations.

Asking a socialist to abandon his failing policies and accepting the successful policies of capitalism is as effective as asking the Ayatollah to accept Jesus Christ as his one and only Savior.
 
I would love to see one of the Japanese vessels harpoon the captain of the activists right off the deck of his ship and reel him in for research--he's quite a fat whale himself.
 
Just subscribing for this thread. I'll start whining and crying when e.g., the blue whale, extincts.

Makes sense to conduct scientific research Japan is so famous for. There's a lot of money in the tourist part of it, of idiots like me who love to see these majestic creatures.
 
I would say the pirates decided their other methods weren't doing enough to keep their television show ratings high and thus decided to refuse to avoid a collision if the opportunity presented itself for that reason.

I doubt they intended for the collision, they simply weren't competent to get out of the way. They are basically taking average joes off the street and making them do things that professional sailors avoid.
 
Just like bank robbers do.

You'll need a different definition, than the one you provided, to separate the two groups.

–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

I'd do arrows and circles if I could. :roll:
 
Nothing was an "accident" the protesters know, as they all do, for their protest to be effective, they must get sympathy from the rest of the world. They must also get and keep the World attention.--It is an age old ploy, that actually works. "Save the snails"
 
The whaling ship did just what they are supposed to do under possible collision conditions.... sheer off to starboard.
 
I doubt they intended for the collision, they simply weren't competent to get out of the way. They are basically taking average joes off the street and making them do things that professional sailors avoid.

Right. The incompetence of the activist sailors is basically what gives the show its entertainment value.
 
Is there a limit to what you think is acceptable for civilians to try to stop whalers?

Yes. Murder & unnecessary violence. Nice try.
 
Some people seem to think it is fine to rammed, sabotaged, shot water canons at and thrown stink bombs at businesses and stop a business from operating just as long as it stops whalers. I think those who support the tactics(have rammed, sabotaged, shot water canons at and thrown stink bombs on whalers and commercial fishing vessels and surrounded certain areas to prevent the whalers from operating and trespassed on other boats) of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society would calling those who did that same **** to businesses here in the US a bunch of loons and demand that they be arrested and physically prevented from doing so in the future.

Wasn't it you who supported murdering an abortion provider to stop him from conducting his business? Does that make you a loon?
 
In a free market, if whales became scarce, then the price would go up, prompting some to catch and maybe raise whales in order to reap the huge profits. After all, if you can get a good supply when prices are high, you stand to make a huge profit. The market will keep the species around.

What happens if you outlaw it? Well obviously raising whales would be impossible logistically. How hard is it to find a whale, let alone a whale farm? So you'll create a black market for whales, and since there is no way to really take advantage of the high prices by increasing the supply, you'll put the animals at the brink of extinction.

Just basically a summary and application of a video from John Stossel I saw once.

Only in the real world, animals go extinct because hunters have proven time and time again that they do not have any intention to moderate themselves or allow themselves to be regulated. So then what happens? Animals go extinct due to overhunting then your market simply moves on to the next animal. Forgive people in the real world for not caring much about applying 9th grade economics to the real world.

Some examples :

10 Most Amazing Extinct Animals - Oddee.com

The quagga was originally classified as an individual species, Equus quagga, in 1788. Over the next fifty years or so, many other zebras were described by naturalists and explorers. Because of the great variation in coat patterns (no two zebras are alike), taxonomists were left with a great number of described "species", and no easy way to tell which of these were true species, which were subspecies, and which were simply natural variants. Long before this confusion was sorted out, the quagga had been hunted to extinction for meat, hides, and to preserve feed for domesticated stock. The last wild quagga was probably shot in the late 1870s, and the last specimen in captivity died on August 12, 1883 at the Artis Magistra zoo in Amsterdam.

The Thylacine became extinct on the Australian mainland thousands of years before European settlement of the continent, but survived on the island of Tasmania along with a number of other endemic species such as the Tasmanian Devil. Intensive hunting encouraged by bounties is generally blamed for its extinction, but other contributory factors may have been disease, the introduction of dogs, and human encroachment into its habitat. Despite being officially classified as extinct, sightings are still reported.

It was completely tame, according to Steller. Fossils indicate that Steller's Sea Cow was formerly widespread along the North Pacific coast, reaching south to Japan and California. Given the rapidity with which its last population was eliminated, it is likely that the arrival of humans in the area was the cause of its extinction elsewhere as well.

Standing about 75 centimetres or 30-34 inches high and weighing around 5 kg, the flightless Great Auk was the largest of the auks. It had white and glossy black feathers. In the past, the Great Auk was found in great numbers on islands off eastern Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Ireland and Great Britain, but it was eventually hunted to extinction. Remains found in Floridan middens suggest that at least occasionally, birds ventured that far south in winter as recently as in the 14th century.

The dodo has been extinct since the mid-to-late 17th century. It is commonly used as the archetype of an extinct species because its extinction occurred during recorded human history, and was directly attributable to human activity. The adjective phrase "as dead as a dodo" means undoubtedly and unquestionably dead. The verb phrase "to go the way of the dodo" means to become extinct or obsolete, to fall out of common usage or practice, or to become a thing of the past.

What is necessary are stiffer penalties and explaining to people the dangers of destroying ecosystems.
 
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defend themselves from an immobile boat?
clearly the japanese ship knew where the smaller craft was to be able to target the water guns at them
the obligation of the larger vessel was to avoid the other boat; instead, it rammed that boat
international rules for avoiding collision (excerpt):
International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You are wrong here, the smaller vessel must always avoid the larger vessel due to maneuverability. Large ships don't turn on a dime, and you cannot prove that the larger ship was aware of the condition of the smaller vessel. They are a business, they are not out there trying to ram other vessels.
 
i find it amusing that a japanese whaler managed to sink a 1.5 million dollar stealth boat
 
I'm gonna go with "You can't deliberately cause a collision", under any circumstances, especially in open sea.....;)
If it were a narrow navigable channel, the larger ship would have right of way, not the case here....
As far as whales, are they really needed as a foodstuff?......:confused:
It's one of those things that should be regulated enough to not make it economically viable, IMO.....;)
 
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