View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #81
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Any full-time worker making less than a living wage ~

    "The Living Wage, based on the annual Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA), is as of January 1st, 2009, at $10.31 an hour for employees with health benefits and $11.57 for those without."
    Coalition for Economic Justice: 2009 Living Wage
    How many children or is this for single people?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    No, the Founders were quite explicit in what they meant by the General Welfare and not one would have approved of either social security or medicare as a function of the federal government. The Constitution was not intended to be a document that could be molded to fit whatever ideology was presented to it, but it was intended to be a document to defend the people against those in government with fuzzy notiond concepts or ideology.
    Please copy me then where in the Constitution they included a definition for General Welfare. Otherwise, I will continue to interpret it as have the courts for the last 70 years just as Social Security was determined to be in the General Welfare.
    Nowhere in the document is there a definition for freedom or liberty or national defense or taxes or elections or those required to be elected to office eiher.
    That is why those issues are still being addressed today.

    The Constitution is therefore understood in the context of how the people who wrote it understood it, and we understand that by reading the large amount of material they left behind that pretty well fully spells out their intent. Anybody who hasn't read some of that material probably doesn't understand or appreciate the Constitution of the United States at all.
    That is not how the courts have interpreted it and I believe in the rule of law.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #83
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    How many children or is this for single people?
    That's for a single person.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #84
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Any full-time worker making less than a living wage ~

    "The Living Wage, based on the annual Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA), is as of January 1st, 2009, at $10.31 an hour for employees with health benefits and $11.57 for those without."
    Coalition for Economic Justice: 2009 Living Wage
    A living wage in San Francisco or Washington DC would be luxurious wages in Salina, Kansas, or Plainview, Texas. A living wage in Salina or Plainview would be starvation wages in San Francisco or Washington DC. So how do you get around the pesky cost of living issues?

    And you're allowing $1.25/hour for health benefits? That would be about $220/month. That's less than most people's car payment or credit card payments each month. Sure doesn't make much of a case that we're in crisis and it is necessary for the Federal government to take over and micromanage the nation's healthcare, huh?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #85
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's for a single person.
    I'll withhold any comments until a few more people tell me what they define as poor.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #86
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please copy me then where in the Constitution they included a definition for General Welfare. Otherwise, I will continue to interpret it as have the courts for the last 70 years just as Social Security was determined to be in the General Welfare.


    That is why those issues are still being addressed today.



    That is not how the courts have interpreted it and I believe in the rule of law.
    I believe in the rule of law too, and the number of us are now legion who believe the courts have not followed the law in the matter of the general welfare.

    Please read these two discussions, and then I will be happy to provide some additional direct quotations from the Founders themselves regarding the issue of the General Welfare and the powers that they intended the federal government to have:

    The General Welfare Clause

    general welfare
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #87
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    A living wage in San Francisco or Washington DC would be luxurious wages in Salina, Kansas, or Plainview, Texas. A living wage in Salina or Plainview would be starvation wages in San Francisco or Washington DC. So how do you get around the pesky cost of living issues?
    That figure was a national average.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I believe in the rule of law too, and the number of us are now legion who believe the courts have not followed the law in the matter of the general welfare.

    Please read these two discussions, and then I will be happy to provide some additional direct quotations from the Founders themselves regarding the issue of the General Welfare and the powers that they intended the federal government to have:

    The General Welfare Clause

    general welfare
    I agree there were many opinions regarding the definition of General Welfare (then just as now), but the founders made the decision not to include those definitions, wisely leaving it for future generations the ability to interpret according to the needs of We The People.

    Unfortunately for your position, the Rule of law does not recognize "the legion" as legal entity.
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-08-10 at 03:22 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #89
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I agree there were many opinions regarding the definition of General Welfare (then just as now), but the founders made the decision not to include those definitions, wisely leaving it for future generations the ability to interpret according to the needs of We The People.

    Unfortunately for your position, the Rule of law does not recognize "the legion" as legal entity.
    You didn't even read the two documents I linked, did you. And you probably haven't read any of the Federalist papers or any of the other many many documents the Founders left behind to inform us of what was intended by the language of the Constitution.

    They did not intend for it to be subject to different interpretation by anybody.

    And judges who do not respect the Constitution will probably come to respect the legions pretty quickly if we are able to throw lot of self-serving bums out of Washington DC and replace them with men and women who love this country and the principles it was founded on, who respect the letter and intent of the Constitution, and who will see to it that judges who also do replace those who don't.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #90
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You didn't even read the two documents I linked, did you.
    I scanned through them enough to determine there is nothing that has successfully challenged the interpretation by the courts that has not been successfully challenged in 70 years.

    And judges who do not respect the Constitution will probably come to respect the legions pretty quickly if we are able to throw lot of self-serving bums out of Washington DC
    Well that hasn't been done in the last 70 years........ even though most of those 70 years the Republicans were in control of congress, so I'm not sure who you think will change it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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