View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #861
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh yes. My education in the law is far more extensive than his was-as is the case with anyone who has passed a bar exam after spending three years in an accredited law school. Why was the 16th amendment passed/
    For someone holding himself up as an expert you sure do make countless mistakes about America, its history and its people.

    from turtle in 840

    iF WE MADE POVERTY more painful less people would remain mired in it
    Make poverty MORE PAINFUL so less less people would be in poverty!!!!! What an amazing concept. You want to take the people who now have the least in our nation and make things even worse for them. You want them to experience MORE PAIN. You want them to suffer more.

    Perhaps you could give us a list of what forms of painful suffering you contemplate would be good for the poor classes in America?
    Just how much suffering and pain do you want to inflict upon those already poor? Would starvation in the streets be acceptable to you? Would work houses for indigent children be something which puts a smile on your face? Maybe we can give them make work jobs chiseling the frozen bodies of other poor from the frozen streets after they law down for the night and have frozen to death there?

    Your complete and total insensitivity to the fate of other people is telling about your character and your ideology.
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-30-11 at 08:10 AM.
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  2. #862
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The sainted Founders also installed a government which gave its legal approval to a system of human slavery.
    yes. which made them different from no other human being in the history of the planet; the civilization without slavery having not yet arisen.

    the Founders ALSO included some of the first Abolitionists; yet another area where they were ahead of their time.

    The sainted Founders also installed a government which treated women as something in between livestock and human beings.
    not true at all; they merely weren't extended the vote. which made them no different in that regards than a propertyless white male.

    Do you want to go back to that also simply because it was the standard over 200 years ago?
    I think that we shouldn't pretend that Everyone Having The Right To Vote is some kind of foundation of the nation, when it clearly isn't. It was a later addition, and there is room for debate on whether or not it was a good one.

  3. #863
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Make poverty MORE PAINFUL so less less people would be in poverty!!!!! What an amazing concept. You want to take the people who now have the least in our nation and make things even worse for them. You want them to experience MORE PAIN. You want them to suffer more.
    yup. sad but true: pain is natures' teacher. government support merely eases the failure of remaining in poverty, and thus serves to encourage it.

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yup. sad but true: pain is natures' teacher. government support merely eases the failure of remaining in poverty, and thus serves to encourage it.
    Somebody suckling from the government breast is hardly in a position to proclaim that others should be cut off from help and increase their pain and suffering.
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax




    yeah. guys in the military are suckling at the government breast.

    cuz that's the easy life, man.



  6. #866
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post



    yeah. guys in the military are suckling at the government breast.

    cuz that's the easy life, man.


    I am sure for some it is. And I am sure for others it is not. Regardless, in thread after thread after thread, in post after post after post, for month after month after month, you take a very strong anti-government position on almost anything not related to defense and the armed forces. But you yourself would not eat if it were not for getting your check and all that comes with it from the the US Government. That hardly makes you the one to judge the poor who also eat because of government assistance.

    If you want to cut government, why don't YOU look at all the ways that YOU benefit from government spending and tell us which ones YOU would like to cut?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #867
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am sure for some it is. And I am sure for others it is not. Regardless, in thread after thread after thread, in post after post after post, for month after month after month, you take a very strong anti-government position on almost anything not related to defense and the armed forces.
    if that's how it seems, then it's only because Government has grown so far beyond where it is supposed to be.

    Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution enumerates the specific reasons for which Congress may tax and spend money. If it ain't on that list (hint: free healthcare for all ain't on it), then the Federal Government shouldn't be doing it.

    But you yourself would not eat if it were not for getting your check and all that comes with it from the the US Government.
    no one that does not grow or hunt their own food would eat if their employer did not pay them.

    That hardly makes you the one to judge the poor who also eat because of government assistance.
    actually the point you are raising has nothing to do whatsoever on whether or not I should judge whether or not the Government should be in the business of easing the sting of poverty along with being in the business of defending it's citizens from foriegn threats. Those two functions are, in fact, completely unrelated.

    If you want to cut government, why don't YOU look at all the ways that YOU benefit from government spending and tell us which ones YOU would like to cut?
    the only government spending i "benefit" from is that they pay me (and pay me comparatively badly, i could make significantly more in the civilian sector) because i work for them. in the meantime, the government spends money on me that i do not benefit from. but hey i signed the papers.




    incidentally, i find it especially hilarious that someone in your shoes (if there is a sector of public employment that can be credited with suckling at the teat, it's public sector unions) would accuse me of suckling at the easy teat of government, or somehow taking the equivalent of welfare.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-30-11 at 09:01 AM.

  8. #868
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    [QUOTE=cpwill;1059253487]if that's how it seems, then it's only because Government has grown so far beyond where it is supposed to be.

    Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution enumerates the specific reasons for which Congress may tax and spend money. If it ain't on that list (hint: free healthcare for all ain't on it), then the Federal Government shouldn't be doing it.



    [QUOTE]

    Perhaps you should read ALL of the Article you cited and you will find that the list is not what you report it to be. And the US Supreme Court - whose job it is to interpret that document - disagrees with you. Of course, that is their job and not yours.

    no one that does not grow or hunt their own food would eat if their employer did not pay them.
    And in your specific case, you employer is the same US Government that you have so much criticism and disdain for when they spend money on things other than you and your interests.

    actually the point you are raising has nothing to do whatsoever on whether or not I should judge whether or not the Government should be in the business of easing the sting of poverty along with being in the business of defending it's citizens from foriegn threats. Those two functions are, in fact, completely unrelated.
    Wrong again. Does the phrase "all enemies foreign and domestic" mean anything to you? It is the job of the US Government to preserve the peace and order in the USA and those programs serve that purpose. Hunger is an enemy. Starvation is an enemy. Freezing to death is an enemy. Or perhaps you view them as your friends?

    incidentally, i find it especially hilarious that someone in your shoes (if there is a sector of public employment that can be credited with suckling at the teat, it's public sector unions) would accuse me of suckling at the easy teat of government, or somehow taking the equivalent of welfare.
    Perhaps you should expand your attitude to accept that there are many ways that a large variety of people performing different and varied functions can all serve the interests of both the Nation and the American people. My remarks to you are to point out the hypocrisy of your contempt for government spending when it does not fall upon your blessed head.
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  9. #869
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    nope. the progressive income tax was unconstitutional. Jefferson, in particular, was quite verbose on the danger of allowing self-government to become a tool for the many to take from the few.
    they realized that when the masses could vote themselves the wealth of others the republic wouild fail

    which is exactly what people who love the idea of democrats winning elections by promising the sucklers of the public teats more goodies paid for by the "rich"



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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The sainted Founders also installed a government which gave its legal approval to a system of human slavery.

    The sainted Founders also installed a government which treated women as something in between livestock and human beings.

    Do you want to go back to that also simply because it was the standard over 200 years ago?

    My calendar says 2011. Perhaps yours still claims it is 1787 and we are still a rather isolated backwater of only 4 million farmers?
    strawman

    conservatives tend to note that most of what the founders did was good-including drafting a constitution that led to the greatest nation on earth

    many leftwingers despise the founders and hate the fact that these men distrusted mob rule and the main tenets of the leftist mentality-envy of the wealthy and a hatred of property



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