View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #811
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You know - the average person is only a bad situation and a few paychecks away from poverty. . . which is a disturbing thought.
    personal responsibility is something everyone has control over. again, engaging in personal responsibility leads one to a 96% chance of not being in poverty.



  2. #812
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I'm much more interested in outcomes than in ideology, and I'm not convinced a flat tax will improve the rhetoric or stop government expansion. After all, what you call pandering is really representation, isn't it? Every American gets a vote, and it's reasonable to expect people to vote in their own self interest, so as long there are differences of opinion, there will be clashes in government, and as long as over-the-top rhetoric is effective, it will be employed. I trust our constitutional republic to seek out an equilibrium among the competing forces, meaning that Democratic politicians can continue to pander to the poor -- as somebody has to -- and the opposition party will keep their power to "confiscate wealth" in check.

    Acutally, I don't think "wealth confiscation" is an accurate term. Income in a one-year period is not reflective of wealth, just income. So even a 90% income tax (which I think is way too high, by the way) wouldn't confiscate existing wealth, though it could severely hamper one's ability to amass wealth in the first place, creating a more rigid social structure at the very top.

    Which brings up another point that others have touched on. Very few people stay in one tax bracket their whole lives. Their cirumstances change, their ability to pay changes, and their tax burden changes with them. Anyone who has only payed the top rate must enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, no?
    anyone who pays the top rate has most likely paid the tax burden for many others



  3. #813
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I would imagine the owners and stockholders of companies with fat defense contracts like Halliburton prove the point perfectly that these wars have benefitted many of those at the top.

    Every time the top tax rates are discussed, proof is provided of them and folks with your opinion jump up and retort that the actual EFFECTIVE RATES were different. Okay. Here is your chance. Our side has provided the data on the rates in effect, your side on this effective rate claim has never presented any hard data.

    So lets see the hard data on just where these EFFECTIVE RATES were during the Fifties. No "common knowledge". No vague pronouncements. Provide us hard data just like the side talking about the real rates have provided.

    From GhostlyJoe



    You could take that wisdom to half the threads on this board. Well said.
    how many people were benefited? I'd like some proof for your claims

    everyone should pay the same rate-everyone gets the same citizenship benefits



  4. #814
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    anyone who pays the top rate has most likely paid the tax burden for many others
    That is absurd and nonsensical. There is no such thing as a TAX BURDEN for others. Every person has a different tax burden and that is the way it is suppose to be.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #815
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how many people were benefited? I'd like some proof for your claims

    everyone should pay the same rate-everyone gets the same citizenship benefits
    You want proof that Halliburton benefitted from war? Do you also want me to prove that the sun rose in the east today while we are at it?

    but here you go

    Halliburton Watch

    and more including a Sixty minute video

    Halliburton Watch

    and more
    http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=6008

    There is no price for citizenship benefits. We have something called the Constitution which sees to that and makes sure folks like you do not prevail in that sort of scheme. You might want to read it sometime.
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-29-11 at 09:29 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is absurd and nonsensical. There is no such thing as a TAX BURDEN for others. Every person has a different tax burden and that is the way it is suppose to be.
    why-because you said so-because politicians want to treat people differently to gain power

    If I buy a cheeseburger I pay the same as you do no matter if I make 400,000 more a year

    my dentist charges me the same as he does a guy making cubicle bunny wages.

    the cars at the dealership where I shop don't have different prices based on income

    so why should government be different? it wasn't for more than half our history

    your assertions have no merit



  7. #817
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You want proof that Halliburton benefitted from war? Do you also want me to prove that the sun rose in the east today while we are at it?

    but here you go

    Halliburton Watch

    There is no price for citizenship benefits. We have something called the Constitution which sees to that and makes sure folks like you do not prevail in that sort of scheme. You might want to read it sometime.
    I want a list of all the people who benefited from the war

    some lefty claimed that the rich benefit more because the war benefits them more than the poor-I need to see proof of that-I didn't benefit from the invasion of Iran anymore than you did-or the guy selling me HOHOs at the local stop & rob.

    lots of blue collar types work for Halliburton-or in the "military industrial complex"

    they benefited too



  8. #818
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    from turtle

    If I buy a cheeseburger I pay the same as you do no matter if I make 400,000 more a year

    my dentist charges me the same as he does a guy making cubicle bunny wages.

    the cars at the dealership where I shop don't have different prices based on income

    CONTINUAL COSTCO CONFUSION

    part 634.

    You do not know the difference between the relationship between a government and a citizen in a representative democracy and that of a customer in a commercial business.

    Ivy League indeed!
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-29-11 at 09:33 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #819
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how many people were benefited? I'd like some proof for your claims

    everyone should pay the same rate-everyone gets the same citizenship benefits
    You want proof that Halliburton benefitted from war? Do you also want me to prove that the sun rose in the east today while we are at it?

    but here you go

    Halliburton Watch

    and more including a Sixty minute video

    Halliburton Watch

    and more
    http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=6008

    There is no price for citizenship benefits. We have something called the Constitution which sees to that and makes sure folks like you do not prevail in that sort of scheme. You might want to read it sometime.
    Or not.
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-29-11 at 09:35 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #820
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    anyone who pays the top rate has most likely paid the tax burden for many others
    No doubt. But I don't find that improper or unjust as long as its through the legitimate action of government.

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