View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
197. You may not vote on this poll
  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
Page 79 of 90 FirstFirst ... 2969777879808189 ... LastLast
Results 781 to 790 of 899

Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #781
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,691

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Oh I see. So because you haven't SEEN it it doesn't happen, hmm? It couldn't POSSIBLY happen here because *we're the best!*
    Here - hold on a minute while I spin you some more wool.
    why don't you post some proof to counter what have seen. i have read lots of poverty figures for the USA vs other nations.



  2. #782
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why don't you post some proof to counter what have seen. i have read lots of poverty figures for the USA vs other nations.
    Don't you read the paper, watch the news?

    How many families live in tent-towns? We've discussed this recently - it's a growing trend all over the US.
    How many homeless are out there living in cardboard boxes and hunker in alleys?
    How many people live in the swamps of Louisianna and Florida and live off the land?

    Do you think that any child or elderly indvidual who lives in any of these conditions - is well fed, healthy and robust or something? Have you seen how some Natives (Alaskans, Indians) live when they're rejected and shunned?

    Didn't you read when piles of corpses were gathered up after having died of exposure during the summer?
    How many children have been discovered to be feral and severely neglected, malnourished - how many elderly? It's in the news all the time.

    The false sense of 'It's not like that here!' is only becuase it's spread all over - they're not hoveled all together in a quarter of one town (well - actually - many are). They're mostly spread all over the country in places where the average person will never see them. They're there- justl ike that - they're just not packed in densely. The hills, the swamps, the mountains, the desert - we have it all.

    *WHY* is it that you think we don't have such conditions here?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  3. #783
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,691

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Don't you read the paper, watch the news?

    How many families live in tent-towns? We've discussed this recently - it's a growing trend all over the US.
    How many homeless are out there living in cardboard boxes and hunker in alleys?
    How many people live in the swamps of Louisianna and Florida and live off the land?

    Do you think that any child or elderly indvidual who lives in any of these conditions - is well fed, healthy and robust or something? Have you seen how some Natives (Alaskans, Indians) live when they're rejected and shunned?

    Didn't you read when piles of corpses were gathered up after having died of exposure during the summer?
    How many children have been discovered to be feral and severely neglected, malnourished - how many elderly? It's in the news all the time.

    The false sense of 'It's not like that here!' is only becuase it's spread all over - they're not hoveled all together in a quarter of one town (well - actually - many are). They're mostly spread all over the country in places where the average person will never see them. They're there- justl ike that - they're just not packed in densely. The hills, the swamps, the mountains, the desert - we have it all.

    *WHY* is it that you think we don't have such conditions here?
    OK no proof

    thanks



  4. #784
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Don't you read the paper, watch the news?

    How many families live in tent-towns? We've discussed this recently - it's a growing trend all over the US.
    i've driven pretty much up and down the east coast recently; i have yet to see these tent cities.

    HOWEVER, i'd bet that they could be partially solved pretty easily through the removal of rent-control provisions.

    How many homeless are out there living in cardboard boxes and hunker in alleys?
    homeless aren't really an adequate measure of poverty; given their propensity to mental instability or drug-addiction.

    How many people live in the swamps of Louisianna and Florida and live off the land?
    what' wrong with living off the land? my best friend's family hunts, farms, and fishes for much of it's food. they do just fine. heck, my uncle fishes and grows all his own vegetables, and he's a millionaire.

    Didn't you read when piles of corpses were gathered up after having died of exposure during the summer?
    no i didn't. was it as bad as France a few years back? ( France heat wave death toll set at 14,802 )

    How many children have been discovered to be feral and severely neglected, malnourished - how many elderly? It's in the news all the time.

    The false sense of 'It's not like that here!' is only becuase it's spread all over - they're not hoveled all together in a quarter of one town (well - actually - many are). They're mostly spread all over the country in places where the average person will never see them. They're there- justl ike that - they're just not packed in densely. The hills, the swamps, the mountains, the desert - we have it all.

    *WHY* is it that you think we don't have such conditions here?
    poverty? we have it here. but poverty is a relative term. the poor of this generation were solid middle class, a two generations ago. the natural condition of man is nasty, brutish, violent, ugly, dirty, and short. we only escape from that by building (over long periods of time) enough wealth in the form of excess production to allow ourselves to rise above it. here in the US, we have come uniquely far.

    some interesting facts about America's "poor"
    The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

    * Forty six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three bedroom house with one and a half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
    * Seventy six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
    * Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two thirds have more than two rooms per person.
    * The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
    * Nearly three quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
    * Ninety seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
    * Seventy eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-28-11 at 11:51 PM.

  5. #785
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Ok - so you two think it's not as bad as I see it.
    But we all agree that we do have those who are homeless and so on. Some through their own decisions - others through the act of others. . . the reasons are quite varied.

    So what to do about it? Ending any of our attempts to help said individuals will only make the issue worse. If you don't think it's that bad right now then surely you don't want to actually make things digress. Poverty in our country has been greatly reduced because of temporary welfare programs for such people - the more significant change happened in the 1960s when they formed the welfare system and then again in the 1990's when they restructured the system and formed it into a state-base structure.

    None the less - regardless of how many or how bad (or not so bad, as is in your views) things are - do you think we should do nothing more - let things stagnate? Or end our current system altogether?

    None the less - the real issue we were first debating which brought this up is that the poor vote for their own support - and the truth there is that most aren't politically active at all so those in power have chosen to taken on the poverty issue on their own accord.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  6. #786
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,708

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i've driven pretty much up and down the east coast recently; i have yet to see these tent cities.

    HOWEVER, i'd bet that they could be partially solved pretty easily through the removal of rent-control provisions.



    homeless aren't really an adequate measure of poverty; given their propensity to mental instability or drug-addiction.



    what' wrong with living off the land? my best friend's family hunts, farms, and fishes for much of it's food. they do just fine. heck, my uncle fishes and grows all his own vegetables, and he's a millionaire.



    no i didn't. was it as bad as France a few years back? ( France heat wave death toll set at 14,802 )



    poverty? we have it here. but poverty is a relative term. the poor of this generation were solid middle class, a two generations ago. the natural condition of man is nasty, brutish, violent, ugly, dirty, and short. we only escape from that by building (over long periods of time) enough wealth in the form of excess production to allow ourselves to rise above it. here in the US, we have come uniquely far.

    some interesting facts about America's "poor"
    If the poor are relatively well-off in this country, isn't that evidence that progressive taxation and "welfare socialism" has achieved its goal of raising the aggregate standard of living?

  7. #787
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how did the wars benefit the most of those in the top 2 percent of tax payers?
    Rich people started them to increase and protect their wealth.


    can you prove the idiotic claim that high massive tax rates caused prosperity
    Between 1936 and 1980, the top tax rate averaged over 81%. Despite the high tax rate for the top income earners, this was one of the most prosperous times for all Americans in our history.

    "Though debt almost always increased under every president in the latter half of the 20th century, it declined as a percentage of GDP under all Presidents after 1950 and prior to Reagan."

    Economic history of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "advocates of progressive taxation tend to be found among the majority of economists and social scientists, many of whom believe that completely proportional taxation is not a possibility. In the U.S., an overwhelming majority of economists (81%) support progressive taxation."

    Klein, D. B.; Stern, C. (2004-12-06). "Economists' policy views and voting". Public Choice Journal. Retrieved 2007-07-02.
    Boxx, W. T. & Quinlivan, G. M. (1994). The Cultural Context of Economics and Politics. Lanham, MA: University Press of America. ISBN 978-0-8191-9680-4


    good luck if you can and what was the effective rate then versus now?
    "In 1955, our 400 highest incomes averaged $12.3 million, in today’s dollars. But the top 400 in 1955 didn’t get to enjoy all those millions. On average, after exploiting every tax loophole they could find, they actually paid over half their incomes, 51.2%, in federal income tax.

    Today’s super rich are doing better, fantastically better, both before and after taxes. In 2006, the top 400 averaged an astounding $263 million each in income. These 400 financially fortunate paid, after loopholes, just 17.2% of their incomes in federal tax."
    Why Should We Tax the Rich? Because They Have the Money! | Dissenting Democrat
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-29-11 at 12:32 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #788
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,691

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    If the poor are relatively well-off in this country, isn't that evidence that progressive taxation and "welfare socialism" has achieved its goal of raising the aggregate standard of living?
    No it isn't

    subsidizing poverty and making it comfortable only increases it



  9. #789
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,708

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    No it isn't

    subsidizing poverty and making it comfortable only increases it
    But if the "impoverished" lead middle class lifestyles, then what's the problem?

  10. #790
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,691

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    But if the "impoverished" lead middle class lifestyles, then what's the problem?
    that really doesn't make much sense-we keep being told the MC is disappearing and there are more poor



Page 79 of 90 FirstFirst ... 2969777879808189 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •