View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #771
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Intriguing idea! I think it would provide an incentive to buy American, but how would we make up the lost tax revenue? Also, for clarification, do you mean removing federal taxes only, or removing state and local taxes as well?
    Federal and state taxes were my thought. As to recovering those costs, states could increase income taxes 3% or so and with the increase of employment and taxes paid-in, the flow of income should be the same. The Federal government will see a cost reduction in the paperwork needed to collect taxes on American goods and the unemployment rate drop will also lead to less costs. Also, if US companies are paying less for materials from within the US, they can increase their exports and create more jobs.

    Or they could just cut spending until revenues from job growth increase.
    Last edited by tlmorg02; 01-28-11 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #772
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Federal and state taxes were my thought. As to recovering those costs, states could increase income taxes 3% or so and with the increase of employment and taxes paid-in, the flow of income should be the same. The Federal government will see a cost reduction in the paperwork needed to collect taxes on American goods and the unemployment rate drop will also lead to less costs. Also, if US companies are paying less for materials from within the US, they can increase their exports and create more jobs.

    Or they could just cut spending until revenues from job growth increase.
    I think your idea has merit if the states would go along with it and if the cost reduction in tax collection would indeed make up the shortfall in taxes which I am skeptical would equal out. I don't see this as a substitute for the changes that need to be made to restore the progressiveness to our tax system, but I do see it as way to help encourage buying American made products.

    Wasteful spending needs to be cut in any case, however, I do not agree with trying to force this through reduced tax revenues, as this is what got us into a real debt problem to begin with when Reagan and the Bushes slashed the tax rates for the top income brackets. This is one of the problems I have with a flat tax.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #773
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think your idea has merit if the states would go along with it and if the cost reduction in tax collection would indeed make up the shortfall in taxes which I am skeptical would equal out. I don't see this as a substitute for the changes that need to be made to restore the progressiveness to our tax system, but I do see it as way to help encourage buying American made products.

    Wasteful spending needs to be cut in any case, however, I do not agree with trying to force this through reduced tax revenues, as this is what got us into a real debt problem to begin with when Reagan and the Bushes slashed the tax rates for the top income brackets. This is one of the problems I have with a flat tax.
    I agree. Of course I doubt there are enough American made products to really hurt revenues, but it would be felt. It would definitely help the US auto industry.

  4. #774
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You're just showing how much you don't know.

    It's ok - you're not alone. The government only recently started to heavily evaluate the subject becaue even they themselves didn't believe that we still had a serious widespread issue.

    But we do - a serious and ignored problem that won't go away no matter how many times you click your heels or donate to the Red Cross.
    really? I have been to various parts of the world and all over the USA I have been in the deepest parts of Appalachia, and the South Bronx and nothing there compares to what i saw in places like Cartegena Columbia, parts of Bolivia etc.



  5. #775
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, it is my position that biggest part of the deficit were expenditures that mostly benefited the rich - unfunded tax cuts for the most wealthy for the last 30 years, the wars, and a military that spends more than the rest of the world combined.

    .

    This is not about the middle class being spiteful, it is about preventing more and more of the middle class from sliding into poverty.

    And your claim that shifting the tax burden from the wealthiest to the middle class will make us more competitive does not stand up to the historical record:

    "the massive Republican tax cuts of the 1920s (from 73 to 25 percent) led directly to the Roaring Twenties’ real estate and stock market bubbles, a temporary boom, and then the crash and Republican Great Depression that started in 1929.

    Then, from the 1930s to the 1980s, rates on the very rich went back up into the 70 to 90 percent range. As a result, the economy grew steadily, and for the first time in the history of our nation we went 50 years without a crash or major bank failure. It was also during this period that the American worker’s wages increased enough to produce the strongest middle class this nation has ever seen.

    Then came Reaganomics." Thom Hartmann | Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts

    Perhaps some historical perspective of our tax rates would help you see how just how far we have gone in slashing our Progressive tax system:



    The flat tax would be an even further shift of tax burden on to the middle class, or as you guys call it, trickling down on us.
    how did the wars benefit the most of those in the top 2 percent of tax payers?

    can you prove the idiotic claim that high massive tax rates caused prosperity

    good luck if you can and what was the effective rate then versus now?



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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So you've changed the discussion of the ever widening gap between the rich and the middle class to say our poor are not as bad off as the poor in Africa?

    Well you have good reason to change the subject I suppose:

    "An analysis conducted by the Economic Policy Institute indicates that the richest one percent of U.S. Households had a net worth 225 times greater than the average American household in 2009. That’s up from 190 times greater, the previous record set in 2004."

    http://www.commercenewstoday.com/archives/4357-Widening-income-gap-bodes-ill-for-U.S..html
    and what would change this without causing massive problems

    why are those on the bottom not competing effectively-maybe its the opiate of welfare socialism

    the longer a system exists, the more those who can compete the most effectively will obtain



  7. #777
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Of Course a few pay Much Less than 40%.

    Top Earners Averaged $345 Million in 2007, IRS Says - Bloomberg
    By Ryan J. Donmoyer - February 18, 2010
    how many times are you going to spam this opinion piece that has no real relevance? the top 400 are not relevant to discussions about jacking up taxes on people who earn over 200K a year and your dishonesty in constantly posting this idiocy is noted



  8. #778
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and what would change this without causing massive problems
    A progressive tax system that provided a growing economy and the strongest middle class in our history.

    why are those on the bottom not competing effectively-maybe its the opiate of welfare socialism

    the longer a system exists, the more those who can compete the most effectively will obtain
    Please note what I was talking about in the post you responded to. I have placed bold emphasis on it for easier recognition - "the ever widening gap between the rich and the middle class"
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #779
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    A progressive tax system that provided a growing economy and the strongest middle class in our history.



    Please note what I was talking about in the post you responded to. I have placed bold emphasis on it for easier recognition - "the ever widening gap between the rich and the middle class"

    a progressive tax doesn't do that-what it does is buy votes for the politicians

    the middle class has become dependent and addicted to keeping up with the Jones's. taxing the rich don't make unproductive people more productive

    and the rich do not exist to fund the existence of others nor was this government created to do that



  10. #780
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    really? I have been to various parts of the world and all over the USA I have been in the deepest parts of Appalachia, and the South Bronx and nothing there compares to what i saw in places like Cartegena Columbia, parts of Bolivia etc.
    Oh I see. So because you haven't SEEN it it doesn't happen, hmm? It couldn't POSSIBLY happen here because *we're the best!*
    Here - hold on a minute while I spin you some more wool.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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