View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #611
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Okay I'll give it a shot.

    The issue is NOT why one group lives longer than another.

    The issue is who is more likely to benefit from SS benefits?

    Because white women live longer on average than any other group, they will collect more in SS than any other group because they will collect it for a longer period than any other group.

    Black men are the group least likely to benefit a great deal from the SS contributions they make even if they contribute significantly more than white women contribute to the system. That is because they are much more likely to die earlier.

    The way the system is set up, if you die before collecting all or any of your SS contributions, the government gets to keep anything you didn't spend. Unlike your IRA or 401K, you can't leave it to your kids or other loved ones or charity.

    So, because black men are far less likely to benefit from most or all of the SS security than are white women, the system benefits white women more than it benefits black men.
    Pretty stupid argument. Both of you are merely stating that because a group lives longer they get more out of social security. There are bigger fish to fry mates.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  2. #612
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Pretty stupid argument. Both of you are merely stating that because a group lives longer they get more out of social security. There are bigger fish to fry mates.
    the biggest fish are:

    Socialist Security is a Ponzi scheme, and it's soon going to be busted. Unless the young workers of American don't object to paying 120% of their wages to support the Boomers...

    The other issues are moral and practical.

    Socialist Security gives a ****ty return on investment. Any youngster stupid enough to consider Socialist Security an "investment" is a damn fool and deserves to die starving in a frozen gutter when he's old. Seriously. Investing 15.4% of your wages in the equities markets can net you millions by the time you retire....and when you croak, that wealth should be inherited by the heirs of your choosing, not taken by politicians to buy votes. They didn't live and work to earn the money, did they? They take any risks? Nope. So, neither the politicians nor the public have any claim on your heirs' money when you croak.

    Finally, it's not the government's job to command individuals to "save for a rainy day", nor is it the government's job to issue umbrellas for people who didn't save.

  3. #613
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    White females benefit most from SS.
    Anecdotal, but true enough...

    ....my father's mother became a widow when she was fifty something. Her husband had paid into Socialist Security only ten years or so, back when the socialist security taxes were just a couple percent. She lived until she was 98, drawing down survivor benefits and everything else the system would give her for amost half a century.

    Old white women can take FOREVER to die, it seems.

  4. #614
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The factual data does not support what you are saying. There is clear cut, thoroughly documented, statistics that show that women recieve less pay for the exact same jobs.
    And...so?

    Explain why businesses aren't firing men in legions and hiring their wives.

  5. #615
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    And...so?

    Explain why businesses aren't firing men in legions and hiring their wives.
    If you're going to take the stance that women aren't hard working and that they get paid the same as men, the burden is on you to provide evidence of that. Otherwise it's just random bigotry. If what you were saying was true, why don't businesses just hire all men? There is no law requiring them to do otherwise. AA requires federal contractors to provide an explanation if they don't hire any women, but "there were more qualified male applicants" is considered a satisfactory explanation...

  6. #616
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Pretty stupid argument. Both of you are merely stating that because a group lives longer they get more out of social security. There are bigger fish to fry mates.
    I wasn't making an argument. I was attempting to clarify a fact because some didn't seem to grasp the concept involved. Like you.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #617
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Pretty stupid argument. Both of you are merely stating that because a group lives longer they get more out of social security. There are bigger fish to fry mates.
    It's pretty big to me.

    I would like to take that money and invest it in things I want.
    I shouldn't be forced to buy into something that I may or may not get anything out of.

    If I die, my wife and kids get my private investments.
    With social security they get a teeny tiny crap death benefit that won't purchase cremation or burial expenses.
    They won't get all that I have contributed.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #618
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Any time you find yourself supporting a sexist, racist, homophobic, etc, position because of you own personal observations, that's something you need to rethink. Personal observations are far too small of a sample size to accurately reflect anything at all about society as a whole, and a person is extremely likely to be seeing the situations in their personal life through a heavy lens of their own subjective opinions and whatnot. That's true for anything, not just issues like sexism, but for issues like sexism it's especially important not to rely on such unreliable data because people get screwed over all the time by common misconceptions like this. You absolutely need to base your opinions on topics like that on statistical data, scientific studies, etc.

    The factual data does not support what you are saying. There is clear cut, thoroughly documented, statistics that show that women recieve less pay for the exact same jobs. If you believe that men are more productive workers, certainly you need to be able to back that up with solid, credible, studies documenting it. Speculating on something like that off the cuff is just wrong.
    I shouldn't have derailed the thread with that, my bad another topic for another day.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    It is interesting that among the serious responses to the poll for this thread, the national sales tax vs flat tax vs status quo or other is running pretty even.

    I wonder if anybody has changed his/her mind since he or she answered the poll?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If you're going to take the stance that women aren't hard working and that they get paid the same as men, the burden is on you to provide evidence of that.
    Since you can only get to your position from what I wrote by taking a long long journey through the Twilight Zone, there's no point in answering this.

    If you fail to understand a statement as obviously bald as mine, you should reassess your post assimilation processes.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Otherwise it's just random bigotry.
    Or....you didn't understand what was said.

    Why is it that so many people lacking the ability to comprehend the written word attributes their lack of ability to racism/bigotry on the author's part?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If what you were saying was true, why don't businesses just hire all men?
    Yes, since I said that, since you claim that women cost less to employ than men, why don't they fire all the men, naturally what I was really implying is that businesses should hire only men.

    Makes perfect sense to you, I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    There is no law requiring them to do otherwise. AA requires federal contractors to provide an explanation if they don't hire any women, but "there were more qualified male applicants" is considered a satisfactory explanation...
    Since you claimed, absurdly, that women are paid less than men, it's up to you to explain why the businesses don't fire all the men and save tons of money hiring women.

    Which is exactly the only point I was making.

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