View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #601
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    SS is nice for people that retire as well
    It's mostly nice for white women, SS is racially and gender discriminatory.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #602
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's mostly nice for white women, SS is racially and gender discriminatory.
    It's very difficult to take any sort of anti-SS argument seriously when irrational explanations like that occur. Elaborate so I can rebut.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  3. #603
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    It's very difficult to take any sort of anti-SS argument seriously when irrational explanations like that occur. Elaborate so I can rebut.
    Life expectancy is longest for white females while black males have the lowest.
    Seeing that they both my pay the same amount into the system, but females get more money from it.

    It isn't worth a damn if your a black male, its worth less if your a white male or black female.

    White females benefit most from SS.




    Full retirement age is 65.

    Full retirement age
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Correlation is not causation. It could be posited that white women live the longest because they are 1) more affluent on average than blacks or non-caucasians and 2) they enjoy less physical stress in daily work routines than do their male counterparts.


    just because they live longer doesn't mean SS is working better for them, its just a trend thats predicated on numerous issues other than SS.
    Last edited by Z3n; 01-25-10 at 03:31 PM.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  5. #605
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Correlation is not causation. It could be posited that white women live the longest because they are 1) more affluent on average than blacks or non-caucasians and 2) they enjoy less physical stress in daily work routines than do their male counterparts.


    just because they live longer doesn't mean SS is working better for them, its just a trend thats predicated on numerous issues other than SS.
    No, you're not understanding what he's saying. He's saying that white women benefit from SS more because the collect SS benefits for more years, not that the live longer because of SS.

  6. #606
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Correlation is not causation. It could be posited that white women live the longest because they are 1) more affluent on average than blacks or non-caucasians and 2) they enjoy less physical stress in daily work routines than do their male counterparts.


    just because they live longer doesn't mean SS is working better for them, its just a trend thats predicated on numerous issues other than SS.
    True but what purpose does a black male have to contribute to a system that doesn't provide him with any benefits.

    If his life expectancy is naturally less than that of a white women, SS has no practical worth for him.
    He can't even pass on his accrued payments to his survivors.

    Let's look at the next table.
    Black and white men participate in the work force on a great scale than any woman does, yet they receive less benefits because of life expectancy.


    Social Security is nice for retired white women, no so much for everyone else.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, you're not understanding what he's saying. He's saying that white women benefit from SS more because the collect SS benefits for more years, not that the live longer because of SS.
    Regardless, i wouldnt attribute SS to being more helpful to white women, regardless of how long they live. I would say overall income and less physical stress are far better indicators of why they live longest, and SS is irrelevant in terms of how already successful they are and the longevity they enjoy independent of what SS might give to them(comparative to wealth of blacks or physical output of males)
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  8. #608
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Regardless, i wouldnt attribute SS to being more helpful to white women, regardless of how long they live. I would say overall income and less physical stress are far better indicators of why they live longest, and SS is irrelevant in terms of how already successful they are and the longevity they enjoy independent of what SS might give to them(comparative to wealth of blacks or physical output of males)
    Part of the problem is gender discrimination laws and civil suites.

    If you ever work a blue collar job you'll find that both genders receive the same amount of pay on average, men do most of the more laborious work.

    The employers pay both men and women the same, to avoid being sued but one does more work than the other.
    Of course my position is totally based on observation.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Of course my position is totally based on observation.
    Any time you find yourself supporting a sexist, racist, homophobic, etc, position because of you own personal observations, that's something you need to rethink. Personal observations are far too small of a sample size to accurately reflect anything at all about society as a whole, and a person is extremely likely to be seeing the situations in their personal life through a heavy lens of their own subjective opinions and whatnot. That's true for anything, not just issues like sexism, but for issues like sexism it's especially important not to rely on such unreliable data because people get screwed over all the time by common misconceptions like this. You absolutely need to base your opinions on topics like that on statistical data, scientific studies, etc.

    The factual data does not support what you are saying. There is clear cut, thoroughly documented, statistics that show that women recieve less pay for the exact same jobs. If you believe that men are more productive workers, certainly you need to be able to back that up with solid, credible, studies documenting it. Speculating on something like that off the cuff is just wrong.

  10. #610
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Regardless, i wouldnt attribute SS to being more helpful to white women, regardless of how long they live. I would say overall income and less physical stress are far better indicators of why they live longest, and SS is irrelevant in terms of how already successful they are and the longevity they enjoy independent of what SS might give to them(comparative to wealth of blacks or physical output of males)
    Okay I'll give it a shot.

    The issue is NOT why one group lives longer than another.

    The issue is who is more likely to benefit from SS benefits?

    Because white women live longer on average than any other group, they will collect more in SS than any other group because they will collect it for a longer period than any other group.

    Black men are the group least likely to benefit a great deal from the SS contributions they make even if they contribute significantly more than white women contribute to the system. That is because they are much more likely to die earlier.

    The way the system is set up, if you die before collecting all or any of your SS contributions, the government gets to keep anything you didn't spend. Unlike your IRA or 401K, you can't leave it to your kids or other loved ones or charity.

    So, because black men are far less likely to benefit from most or all of the SS security than are white women, the system benefits white women more than it benefits black men.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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