View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #51
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'd support a flat tax with the caveat that people below a certain income level would be exempt.
    With the additional caveat that people who don't pay taxes aren't allowed to vote.

    We seriously should not be allowing people who don't pay into the treasury a voice in how the treasury is disbursed.

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    With the additional caveat that people who don't pay taxes aren't allowed to vote.

    We seriously should not be allowing people who don't pay into the treasury a voice in how the treasury is disbursed.
    As long as they aren't a net tax consumer then I think they should be able to vote.

  3. #53
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I support a forced balanced budget at all levels with a combined Fed & State flat income tax, in addition to a combined flat sales tax, with no other taxes being imposed.
    Which could not be deviated from except in case of declared war.
    I see that as being fair and just to all concerned.

  4. #54
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    With the additional caveat that people who don't pay taxes aren't allowed to vote.

    We seriously should not be allowing people who don't pay into the treasury a voice in how the treasury is disbursed.
    There are other political issues besides allocating tax dollars.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why wouldn't it be extremely painful? People who are earning very little money spend almost ALL of their money on the necessities of life, whereas people who are earning more spend a lower percentage on necessities. Therefore it's more painful for a poor person to give up X% of his income than for a rich person to give up X% of his income.
    Nope. Been there done that. When we were living absolutely paycheck to paycheck, our 10% tithe didn't seem like a big deal. It was a small amount and though we had very little it seemed like a small amount to pay. Once we got into the big time and were nowhere rich but were quite comfortable, that tithe looked enormous and we swallowed hard writing out the check. It was still just 10% but the perception was entirely different.

    But nevertheless, the poor among us should be encouraged to do what they need to do to stop being poor. Many will not do that if the government rewards them for their poverty and punishes the productive for their productivity.

    Some of the best-governed countries in the world have taxes that are much more progressive than ours.
    When our country gave us the freedom to chart our own destiny and reach for whatever our imagination, skills, and ability will let us achieve, there has been no country in the world with the freedom and opportunity offered by America or that was more envied than we were. Even with all the government corruption and manipulated economy, we still still sustain one of the highest standards of living in the world, but it will not last if we continue on the path of Marxist tinged socialism that we are currently on.

    Or more likely: It's a powerful incentive for politicians to use extreme levels of deficit spending forever, and eventually bankrupt the nation.
    The government has proved that it will spend whatever money it has to spend and more. All that will remedy that is limiting the amount of money that government has to spend. The people need to take their government back and make that happen.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #56
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I like the sound of this. Its the direction I think is needed:

    We need a new progressive tax system

    "We need a new tax bracket for millionaires.

    The bonus babies of bailed out Wall St do not get to have their cake and eat mine too.

    Our nation is in an economic crisis which is nearly entirely of Wall Streets making, and yet the super profits they will make this year will be entirely because of the Government bailouts that could have been used for education, health care and basically anything else.

    My first instinct is to get the pitchforks and torches, but on second thought there is an easy way to rectify the situation.

    Tax the millionaires.

    Inflation has hit our economy hard because of the high end inflation of many goods such as housing, health insurance and education. Though inflation is not easily perceived in small day to day goods like milk and bread, the price of housing doubled in the last ten years. So did health care and education.

    And as the super rich profitted during the Bush years and wages stagnated across the counry life became too expensive for us Joe and Jane Six Packs.

    But the class war goes on and the rich keep getting richer.

    We are now at a point where our nation will collapse financially without massive Government spending that will create jobs. Mere trickle down bailouts for the banks that cause and continue to cause these economic disasters will not do.

    And in order to do that someone has to pay for it.

    After 40 years of trickle down, now is the time to build from the bottom up.

    Now is the time to grow the base of the economy.

    If we create new tax brackets at 25 million, 15, 10, 5 and 1 million we can pay for all the vital infrastructure and social programs the future of America is depending upon at minimal cost to those tax payers while providing maximum return.

    That return will be in the form of a better more equitable society. Youth with better educations, parents with better retirements, a cleaner, safer environment, more scientific breakthroughs, more progress

    Isn't that the goal?

    We can not continue to assume that no one has to pay for anything and the free market will provide for all. This is simply not true. Someone must pay. How it should be should be based on who has the ability to pay. The status quo as it stands now is untenable. It has not worked and never will, not as long as profits come before people.

    Therefore, I propose a Millionaires tax, as well as a fundamental progressive shift in our tax code which shifts the burden off the lower brackets by creating new, higher brackets.

    What those shifts are, how drastic they should be and how we will achieve it, I leave to be debated amongst you, my docudharmic peers.

    The floor is now open for debate."

    Docudharma:: Class War 101: We need a new progressive tax system
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  7. #57
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Nope. Been there done that. When we were living absolutely paycheck to paycheck, our 10% tithe didn't seem like a big deal. It was a small amount and though we had very little it seemed like a small amount to pay. Once we got into the big time and were nowhere rich but were quite comfortable, that tithe looked enormous and we swallowed hard writing out the check. It was still just 10% but the perception was entirely different.
    First of all, your tithe was optional. Furthermore, you're talking about your PERCEPTION of how much it hurt you, whereas I'm talking about actual well-being. Someone who spends 100% (or more) of their income on basic necessities is going to be hurt more by higher taxes than someone who has some discretionary income.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    But nevertheless, the poor among us should be encouraged to do what they need to do to stop being poor. Many will not do that if the government rewards them for their poverty and punishes the productive for their productivity.
    And yet, some of the developed countries with the most progressive tax structures (e.g. Norway, Denmark) have some of the lowest levels of poverty, whereas the United States has an extremely high amount of poverty for a country as developed as we are. Hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    When our country gave us the freedom to chart our own destiny and reach for whatever our imagination, skills, and ability will let us achieve, there has been no country in the world with the freedom and opportunity offered by America or that was more envied than we were. Even with all the government corruption and manipulated economy, we still still sustain one of the highest standards of living in the world,
    No argument there.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    but it will not last if we continue on the path of Marxist tinged socialism that we are currently on.

    I've never seen Comrade Obama or Comrade Emanuel at the Party meetings. Maybe they go a different night of the week than I do. Obviously you're right; clearly the United States is becoming just like the USSR.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The government has proved that it will spend whatever money it has to spend and more. All that will remedy that is limiting the amount of money that government has to spend. The people need to take their government back and make that happen.
    Tax rates have gone up and down, but government spending has continued to increase. The notion that tax cuts will lead to spending cuts is demonstrably false; they have just led to higher sustained deficits.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-07-10 at 09:51 PM.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Universal Tax Formula:

    Gross Income x 10% = Tax Owed


    No adjustments, deductions, loopholes.

    Other Universal Tax Formulae:

    Inheritance Tax = 0.00000%
    Capital Gains Tax = 0.00000%
    Corporate Income Tax = 0.00000%
    Property Tax = 0.00000%
    Funny scarecrow, I never thought you wanted to cut the military budget so much.

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Funny scarecrow, I never thought you wanted to cut the military budget so much.
    From what I heard the Sales tax would have to be about 22%

  10. #60
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    A sales tax is least intrusive and offers the individual the option of not paying taxes.
    Which is why it's not a good form of taxation. In order to get the amount of tax revenue needed to finance the government, we'd have to raise the tax rates to oppressive levels that the people who do pay taxes wouldn't be able to afford.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    A national sales tax encourages thrift and savings.

    That's always a good thing.
    Sure, let's add a national sales tax on items in the current economy. It won't hurt businesses who manufacture those items at all, further stagnating the economy. Won't hurt a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Another thing with societal costs which we should consider taxing is day-trading. A so-called "Tobin Tax" on excessive speculation might be a good idea, to prevent sudden price swings in currencies/commodities/stocks/whatever with no obvious cause. Gordon Brown floated the idea at the G20 summit a couple months ago, but the US delegation shot it down.
    While I support a tax on stock trades to stabilize the economy, I'm not sure if I would do it as an alternate for the income tax.

    On one hand, those who are more likely to pay this tax are the wealthy who frequently perform such trades, and therefore would better be able to bear the burden. On the other hand, it would also be a burden on the poor and prevent them from making quick trades.

    I don't think such a tax should be used as an alternate to the income tax because I don't think it would bring in enough tax revenue. If you raised such a tax to levels that high, the lower and middle classes may not be able to trade stocks as fast as they'd need to. Mostly the reason why I'm in favor of a "Tobin Tax" is to keep Wall Street executives from using stock trading as pump-and-dump schemes, but I don't want to unfairly punish trading.

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