View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #541
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I am saying that the whole idea that progressive income taxes will cause an economy to collapse as people vote for more and more spending that they do not need to pay for is false.
    If we are speaking of just progressive income taxes, I would agree. I oppose a progressive income tax system because I believe it to be unconstitutional as the Founders intended the Constitution to be interpreted; and I believe it is counter productive in accomplishing either more money for the government or more in services and/or prosperity for the people. But that is a debate within itself.

    What DOES cause an economy to collapse is taking more and more from one sector of society and giving that to another not because they merit it or were denied any benefit from society, but purely because they have less and will keep voting in people who will pay them for being poor.

    This is why I support a flat tax that is uniform across the board. Any change that benefits one group benefits all. Any change that hurts one group hurts all. And THAT, coupled with an iron clad law that Congress is prohibited from using tax revenues to dispense charity or benevolence of any sort that benefits some but not all, I believe would solve a very large lion's share of both our economic and social problems in this country.

    I use Europe as my example, their income tax is even more progressive as ours, but the people do not vote in large enough numbers to support any radical leftism that you are fearing.
    Again, the USA is not Europe. All European countries are far more like one of our states or even one of our larger cities or counties than they are like the USA. The USA was founded and designed on an entirely different principle than the European model and it has been a success. I do not wish to revert to the European model.

    Sure, it is more leftist policies then you like, (and my post here has nothing to do with if the US should be more or less like Europe) but you can't say that progressive income taxes will destroy an economy, because Europe is doing fine enough.
    I have not said that progressive income taxes have ever or will destroy an economy. I think if you think that is what I said or implied, you should look more closely at what I have actually said.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 01-22-10 at 05:30 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #542
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post

    Oh, and what's wrong with economic disparity?
    Only that it was what this country was founded against. There can be no freedom without justice.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #543
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    If it retains the socialist...er "pro-gressive" nature of the current tax code it isn't very fair, now is it?
    Fair? If you think that changing the current tax system can be done because it is "fair" you are not thinking right. If people, who under the current tax codes, can get away with paying no tax based on their earnings, why in the wide World Of Sports would they vote for a new tax system that would require them to pay?
    There comes a time when you have to be both practical and pragmatic about what can be done and how to do it.
    The benefits of the "Fair Tax" far out weigh the fact that some people under the poverty line may not pay taxes.
    -The IRS goes away and with it all the billions we spend for them.
    -The actual estimated tax is 22%, not 30, or 39 % like so many non economic media types claim. This figure from a study by economic professors who took into account all embedded taxes, on average, of an end product, good, or service.
    -All people will pay into the system as they purchase goods and services. That includes illegal immigrants, the rich, churches, etc. In other words, no cheating on your taxes here.
    -Those at or below the poverty line get a pre-bate check to pay for the necessities of life. Do we really want to tax poor people? Really?
    -And the best thing about the "fair Tax" is that it takes control away from politicians so they cannot add loopholes that favor their sponsors and other corporations. This is going to be the biggest hurdle in getting a tax system change, the loss of power by government.
    -As to fairness, would any body argue that some rich people pay no taxes because we are taxed on income? If a person is wealthy, he lives off his savings. Now, all pay according to what they buy.
    -Also, all those political taxes go away, no death or inheritance tax. No property tax. No Home tax. No SS or Medicare tax. All taken care of by the Fair tax system.
    -And no Tax return!
    -In 2002, it was estimated that individuals, businesses, and nonprofits spent 5.8 billion hours complying with the tax code. Imagine the cost?

    These are just a very few of the reasons for a "Fair Tax.
    Last edited by Reality Land; 01-22-10 at 06:02 PM.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

  4. #544
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Oh, and what's wrong with economic disparity?
    Only that it was what this country was founded against.
    Oh really? Care to point out some source docs on this one? I don't believe it for a minute.


    There can be no freedom without justice.
    This certainly has the ring of a far left jangle. What is it suppose to mean. You can certainly have freedom without justice.

  5. #545
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Oh really? Care to point out some source docs on this one? I don't believe it for a minute.
    Ever heard of the Boston tea party, or would you like me to document it for you?

    This certainly has the ring of a far left jangle. What is it suppose to mean. You can certainly have freedom without justice.
    Please explain to me how those without justice have freedom, and why it is exactly you are opposed to justice?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #546
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Ever heard of the Boston tea party, or would you like me to document it for you?
    The Boston Tea Party had nothing to do with economic disparity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please explain to me how those without justice have freedom, and why it is exactly you are opposed to justice?
    I never said I was opposed to justice, merely that your phrasing in one the far left uses.

  7. #547
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    [quote=reefedjib;1058503879]
    The Boston Tea Party had nothing to do with economic disparity.
    You mean it wasn't about protesting our requirement to send money to the fat cats in England in the form of taxes rather than keeping it in the Colonies?

    I never said I was opposed to justice, merely that your phrasing in one the far left uses.
    You said there could be freedom without justice. Can you explain to me how that works?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #548
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean it wasn't about protesting our requirement to send money to the fat cats in England in the form of taxes rather than keeping it in the Colonies?
    That's not economic disparity.

    You said there could be freedom without justice. Can you explain to me how that works?
    An injustice is done to someone, let us say they are raped by a politician. Still they have the freedoms guaranteed by our constitution - they speak up about it.

  9. #549
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    That's not economic disparity.
    So the wealth division between England and the colonies was equal and just and that is why we protested the taxes being sent to England?
    An injustice is done to someone, let us say they are raped by a politician. Still they have the freedoms guaranteed by our constitution - they speak up about it.
    So in you definition of liberty, rape is acceptable?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #550
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    So in you definition of liberty, rape is acceptable?
    Bite me. I'll not continue as you twist my words to your agenda.

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