View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #531
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    And in theory the right to life in the declaration of independence is a stab at insurance companies and economic income disparity further advocated the 14 amendment?
    Hmmm....are you aware that the Declaration of Independence is not the Constitution?

    Just checking.

    Oh, and what's wrong with economic disparity? let me guess, you're jealous and want to pretend your feelings are intellectual, not visceral.

  2. #532
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hmmm....are you aware that the Declaration of Independence is not the Constitution?

    Just checking.

    Oh, and what's wrong with economic disparity? let me guess, you're jealous and want to pretend your feelings are intellectual, not visceral.
    its no secret that visceral feelings are an impairment to human nature and the political psyche...

    "The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  3. #533
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    its no secret that visceral feelings are an impairment to human nature and the political psyche...

    "The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
    Yes, taxing people equally doesn't violate this.

    What's your point, that if a socialist had a life he's stop being a whiner?

  4. #534
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes, taxing people equally doesn't violate this.

    What's your point, that if a socialist had a life he's stop being a whiner?

    what does that even mean? free your mind from meaningless pejoratives and evaluate the issues at hand instead of indoctrination into status quo mentality the upper eschilon of society wants for you and your heirloom.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  5. #535
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    what does that even mean?
    If you aren't a socialist you don't have to be told.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    free your mind from meaningless pejoratives and evaluate the issues at hand instead of indoctrination into status quo mentality the upper eschilon of society wants for you and your heirloom.
    The issue at hand is that so-called "progressive" tax scams are an unconstitutional violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause.

  6. #536
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So do I.

    Class envy and incrementalism.
    So your position is our forefathers were socialists? By that line of thinking, since the wealthy pay drastically less taxes now then they did in the 50's, we are drastically less socialistic today than we were during a time of great prosperity.

    Interesting theory!

    Not good reasons to violate the Fourteenth Amendment.
    The income tax has not been overturned by the Supreme Court as being in violation of the 14th Amendment. So, by the rule of law, it is legal.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #537
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    a) The United States of America is not Europe. The Founders intended that it NOT be Europe but be the United States of America based on principles of unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It took the Europeans quite some time before they even considered looking at personal liberty as a right instead of privilege via membership in a particular group.

    Those who are enamored with Europe and want the USA to now be like THEM should move there. I prefer a USA that fits the vision the Founders had for it when they gave us our Constitution.

    2) I'm not sure what you are getting at here or whether I disagree or agree with you. Can you elaborate or clarify a bit?
    I am saying that the whole idea that progressive income taxes will cause an economy to collapse as people vote for more and more spending that they do not need to pay for is false.

    I use Europe as my example, their income tax is even more progressive as ours, but the people do not vote in large enough numbers to support any radical leftism that you are fearing.

    Sure, it is more leftist policies then you like, (and my post here has nothing to do with if the US should be more or less like Europe) but you can't say that progressive income taxes will destroy an economy, because Europe is doing fine enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The study make serious assumptions that aren't necessary true to reality. Right now with increasing fees on credit cards, firms are offering cash customers lower prices. What is preventing them from not booking them properly and reporting them? Now tell me, what will stop firms from expanding this when sales tax flies through the roof?



    Read the links I posted. It is disturbing to me that more and more people are unaware of what a link looks like on a post.



    Because it is pretty much the only way to ensure a goods based company is reporting its total sales.



    Low enough? You do realize over $500 billion is not reported no? And that's a low estimate.



    Come again? Most people are unaware that they won't get audited unless they have a few known red flags, such as a home office deduction (never ever take that). Businesses on the other hand know they have a surefire way of hiding sales. Simply don't ring up a cash sale on the register. And no, it doesn't work with income tax.

    The Underground*Economy - Brief Analysis #273

    And that was in 1998. It's probably well over a trillion by now in unreported income.



    Perhaps you should start reading links that are posted?
    Assumptions that aren't true? I am giving you the benefit of the doubt on all of the assumptions. Fair Tax.com claimed that the tax would only be 30%, while a NON PARTISAN watchdog organization said that 39.3% is more accurate.

    You can't just claim that there are other assumptions that you can't quantify in any way, and that it means that the report is false.


    I looked again and I couldn't find your link. So are you going to show it to me, and prove me completely wrong... or are we just going to be stuck here wasting our time.


    Finally, your link just shows that tax evasion is common, I agree with that, and that is why I am fine with debating a 39.3% sales tax, which is TEN PERCENT above what fair tax thinks would work. and anyway, your link is about income taxes and not sales taxes, and I think that a universal sales tax will have even less tax evasion. so i would really like to see your link about sales taxes at a local level....
    Last edited by nerv14; 01-19-10 at 08:16 PM.

  8. #538
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes, taxing people equally doesn't violate this.

    What's your point, that if a socialist had a life he's stop being a whiner?
    Article 1. Section 8. The U.S. constitution.

    U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  9. #539
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Article 1. Section 8. The U.S. constitution.

    U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States
    Wow! You found the Constitution on-line.

    Amazing.

    Now, when are you going to learn that it's anti-socialist?

  10. #540
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Article 1. Section 8. The U.S. constitution.

    U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States
    zzz...(10 char)
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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