View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #501
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I'd wager that 99.999% of the tax code is irrelevant to 80% of the population. So people don't need to know it because it never applies to them. Much of the code is also due to lobbyists getting specific deductions applicable to their industries. And significant amounts to prevent abusive schemes setup by accountants and lawyers.
    Yeah, I agree with you. Lobbying and farad checking is a mess.

  2. #502
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Io0011 View Post
    A tax on consumption will be complicated. How would you verify it? The only way I have heard would be a new-world-order-esk system of computerized banking where money does not exist. Which I think would be unenforceable, and evil if it was.
    That or audit inventory. I'm not ensure sure how you'd go about doing service sales without having to pull invoices from clients. That will be a mess.

    In a cashless society it might work.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #503
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That or audit inventory. I'm not ensure sure how you'd go about doing service sales without having to pull invoices from clients. That will be a mess.

    In a cashless society it might work.
    That is unrealistic though. If you use the computerized banking you get taxed. If you don't you don't. Which would you rather do? Now the government will want its money, and start enforcing it's citizens to go with out money that already exists and switch to their new computerized one. You think terrorism in another country is bad? Just want until that happens. Also I computerized system can be re-written. I have infinite money now, because I write the system. I delete your account number, you don't exist.

    You don't find that evil?

  4. #504
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    National Sales Tax - With the following exemptions:

    1) Food and drugs

    2) Mortgage or rent

    3) Utilities

    4) Education

    5) Medical

    6) Raw materials for manufacturing, so that products don't end up being taxed twice

    With that in place, nobody pays any tax on necessities to live, but does pay taxes on everything else.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  5. #505
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    National Sales Tax - With the following exemptions:

    1) Food and drugs

    2) Mortgage or rent

    3) Utilities

    4) Education

    5) Medical

    6) Raw materials for manufacturing, so that products don't end up being taxed twice

    With that in place, nobody pays any tax on necessities to live, but does pay taxes on everything else.
    OK, you have a plan. Now enforce it.

    That is the big issue with this plan. I think most people agree it would work better than the one we have now. We just have to make the sales tax plan work.

  6. #506
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Io0011 View Post
    That is unrealistic though.
    Which? Inventory auditing? I agree there. That's borderline insane.

    You don't find that evil?
    Pretty much. While centralized banking is somewhat required in today's economy, government control of a computerized cashless currency system is just asking for trouble.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Eh. All of the options other then cookies suck.

    The current system is way to complicated to be viable in the long run.

    A flat tax removes many useful methods of stimulating the economy and is regressive.

    A national sales tax is completely ridiculous in actual application. We'd need millions of auditors to ensure that companies are actually paying their sale tax. States can't even get accurate sale tax from their vendors. Thinking that we could do it nationally is certifiably insane. Anyone who thinks we could have an honest, accurate and viable national sale tax has never, ever worked in the private sector.
    It's called voting in people who don't insist on complicating things; smart folks with integrity and experience. Until we do that, NO tax system will be viable or efficient.

  8. #508
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    National Sales Tax - With the following exemptions:

    1) Food and drugs
    So people spending large amounts on gourmet food get an exemption?

    2) Mortgage or rent
    So if I get a $150 million mortgage, that's exempted too? Technically there wouldn't be sales tax on mortgage because it's not a sale. So if I rent a fabulous house for a million a year, that's not taxable as rental income?

    3) Utilities
    So if I start a server farm, I don't pay taxes on that electricity?

    I'm a bit lazy now so I won't come up with abuses for the others, but you get the point.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #509
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    National Sales Tax - With the following exemptions:

    1) Food and drugs

    2) Mortgage or rent

    3) Utilities

    4) Education

    5) Medical

    6) Raw materials for manufacturing, so that products don't end up being taxed twice

    With that in place, nobody pays any tax on necessities to live, but does pay taxes on everything else.
    And who gets to decide what is or is not a necessity?

    Who determines what is a drug? Okay, a blood pressure prescription might be a necessity, but what about cough drops that people buy and eat in lieu of hard candy? What is food? Anything edible including stuff packaged as dogfood? Fudge? Donuts? (It got so ridiculous in Kansas one time that cookies were taxed but if you bought the ingredients separately to bake them at home, you avoided it.)

    What constitutes mortgage or rent? All the property you own? Or just that which you live in? If you live in your place of business, is the cost of housing your business then exempt?

    What is a utility? Does the high price and great smelling pinon wood bought to burn in my fireplace count?

    What counts as education? If I take a pottery class to get out of the house one day a week, should that be exempt? Can I just classify any lecture or seminar for whatever purpose as 'educational' to avoid having to collect the tax? If I need a computer for an on line class, is it exempt?

    What constitutes medical? Will my sis's Weight Watcher dues or my spouse's gym membership, both recommended by the doctor, be exempt?

    What constitutes raw materials? The basic elements? Or the ingredients purchased to bake Rainbow bread? Will the baker have to buy wheat direct from the farmer and mill his own flour to avoid the tax? If not, where in there is the tax not applied? And those who provide the most basic elements don't have to collect any tax ever?

    Each state with a sales tax has its own rules, regs, and policy regarding how taxes are applied and I doubt any two are exacty alike. To impose a Federal sales tax that would apply equally and equitably across the country would require a library full of definitions, rules, regulations, and specifications, a new bureaucracy to monitor, audit, and explain it, and all sorts of ways that our elected leaders would be able to dicker with the system to favor this group or that group.

    A flat income tax applied evenly and without equivocation across the board, even if there were a few deductions allowed in order to promote the general welfare, would be far more difficult to manipulate for political advantage.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Did Scarecrow even address anything I said?
    Yes.

    You said it's impossible. I said it's better.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how auditing millions of businesses' inventory is easy.
    Nobody said anything about "easy".

    We've been saying auditing a business is easier than auditing a bazillion individuals.

    Since you don't wish to discuss what we say, why are you bothering to post?

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