View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #41
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The percentage wouldn't matter. If it was 10% the guy making a hundred dollars pays $10. He wouldn't like giving up the $10 but he would have $90 left and it would not be extremely painful to give up the $10.
    Why wouldn't it be extremely painful? People who are earning very little money spend almost ALL of their money on the necessities of life, whereas people who are earning more spend a lower percentage on necessities. Therefore it's more painful for a poor person to give up X% of his income than for a rich person to give up X% of his income.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    But he would have a stake in the system and he would care whether his elected representatives raised taxes because now they would affect him too. Right now we have almost 50% of working Americans who pay little or no federal income taxes at all. No government will be a good government when that situation exists.
    Some of the best-governed countries in the world have taxes that are much more progressive than ours.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    But while the guy making $100 pays $10, the guy making a $1,000 pays $100 and the guy making a million pays $100,000. Nobody is punished for being industrious and prosperous and nobody is able to benefit from a tax policy arranged to insure that politicians stay in Congress for perpetuity. And without ability to raise our taxes without angering all their contituency, that would be powerful incentive for politicians to use fiscal restraint and spend money on only that they have to spend money on.
    Or more likely: It's a powerful incentive for politicians to use extreme levels of deficit spending forever, and eventually bankrupt the nation.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I'd go with a national sales tax, of course it would come with a repeal of all other taxes and a decrease in spending.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Until a better alternative is devised I'm for sticking with the Income tax.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #44
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree with that last part. Soda is another thing I would tax (I didn't mention it above because I'm skeptical if it would really generate a significant amount of revenue for the government). I think cigarettes are already taxed enough to compensate for the costs to society, so I probably wouldn't change those too much.

    Another thing with societal costs which we should consider taxing is day-trading. A so-called "Tobin Tax" on excessive speculation might be a good idea, to prevent sudden price swings in currencies/commodities/stocks/whatever with no obvious cause. Gordon Brown floated the idea at the G20 summit a couple months ago, but the US delegation shot it down.
    I'm not sure I see the direct harm resulting from things like day-trading though. With overeating/smoking, the direct result is trillions in additional healthcare spending. If Goldman, JPM, and a few hedge funds want to try to **** each other out of a .001% profit on some currency trades, I don't really see the harm.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There needs to be an option for "income tax, with modifications." I support an income tax that, generally speaking, is higher and more progressive than what we currently have. I would eliminate most deductions, leaving only education, health, and charity deductions. I would tax a person's ENTIRE compensation (including medical benefits) as regular income.

    And while we're at it, we should get rid of all corporate taxes and tariffs, tax capital gains as normal income, eliminate most general sales taxes, and increase the gasoline tax.
    Believe it or not, I mostly agree with you here. The only part I disagree with is that "higher and more progressive" doesn't really capture the changes I think we need. On the one hand, people making $500k or a million per year shouln't pay as high a tax as those making $50 million a year; on the other hand, there shouldn't be nearly as high a number of people who don't have to pay any taxes. There should be some kind of universal formula rather than brackets. I also don't see what a higher gas tax would accomplish.

  6. #46
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    America seems withdrawn from from taxing the very rich.I dont know why At least in something like the estate tax is perfect.
    What? Fortune/property tax, now thats the WORST destructive tax ever.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #47
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I'm not sure I see the direct harm resulting from things like day-trading though. With overeating/smoking, the direct result is trillions in additional healthcare spending. If Goldman, JPM, and a few hedge funds want to try to **** each other out of a .001% profit on some currency trades, I don't really see the harm.
    The argument is that speculation increases volatility in the market, and the Tobin tax could help lower that. In the international world, speculators in currency and oil have managed to cause enough harm that I would certainly support de-incentivizing such behavior. However, the Tobin tax is untested and thus it would be something of a gamble. Also, you would need quite a bit of cooperation on the international scene to avoid tax dodging for it work.

  8. #48
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    In my system, the lower class might see some tax increase, but most would pay less, as in Drunkentopia government spending would plummet
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  9. #49
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Believe it or not, I mostly agree with you here. The only part I disagree with is that "higher and more progressive" doesn't really capture the changes I think we need. On the one hand, people making $500k or a million per year shouln't pay as high a tax as those making $50 million a year; on the other hand, there shouldn't be nearly as high a number of people who don't have to pay any taxes. There should be some kind of universal formula rather than brackets. I also don't see what a higher gas tax would accomplish.
    Universal Tax Formula:

    Gross Income x 10% = Tax Owed


    No adjustments, deductions, loopholes.

    Other Universal Tax Formulae:

    Inheritance Tax = 0.00000%
    Capital Gains Tax = 0.00000%
    Corporate Income Tax = 0.00000%
    Property Tax = 0.00000%

  10. #50
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I'd support a flat tax with the caveat that people below a certain income level would be exempt.

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