View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
197. You may not vote on this poll
  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
Page 49 of 90 FirstFirst ... 39474849505159 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 899

Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #481
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your definitiion is not authoritative.

    I pay more in taxes than 99.8% of the country.

    I get nothing more in return. However, I cannot outvote 10 people who pay nothing

    that is disgusting. there is no incentive for net tax consumers to vote for fiscal sanity when they keep getting without being taxed.


    The koolaid is consumed by people like you who think a progressive tax is not going to ruin this nation
    It is possible for you to for once in your career here post a substantial post that isn't ridiculous?

    Still pretending a user fee is a flat tax eh?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #482
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,509
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Progressives taxation will not necessarily ruin this country because it has not destroyed Europe. Even if their economic growth is lower, educated people (where there is more of them in Europe) understand that too much progressive taxation will harm the economy.

    If what you said about people never voting to increase taxes if they don't have to pay them is true, then explain conservative movements now and in the past in Europe.

    People in Europe aren't that dumb enough to not understand that the rich can't pay all of the taxes. But people who don't pay taxes obviously have an increased incentive to increase spending over those who pay more income taxes.
    a) The United States of America is not Europe. The Founders intended that it NOT be Europe but be the United States of America based on principles of unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It took the Europeans quite some time before they even considered looking at personal liberty as a right instead of privilege via membership in a particular group.

    Those who are enamored with Europe and want the USA to now be like THEM should move there. I prefer a USA that fits the vision the Founders had for it when they gave us our Constitution.

    2) I'm not sure what you are getting at here or whether I disagree or agree with you. Can you elaborate or clarify a bit?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #483
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    You can make as many claims that you want that a universal sales tax would be unworkable from tax evasion, but I just showed you a real study (from skeptics non the less) who said that a 39.3% tax would generate enough revenue.
    The study make serious assumptions that aren't necessary true to reality. Right now with increasing fees on credit cards, firms are offering cash customers lower prices. What is preventing them from not booking them properly and reporting them? Now tell me, what will stop firms from expanding this when sales tax flies through the roof?

    I looked at your other post before and there was your comment about poor tax collection of sales taxes at the state level. But I don't see any evidence for that or how your unsupported claim refutes the information that I have found.
    Read the links I posted. It is disturbing to me that more and more people are unaware of what a link looks like on a post.

    and where are you getting that all inventories need to be audited?
    Because it is pretty much the only way to ensure a goods based company is reporting its total sales.

    Today not everyone's income tax report is audited, and tax evasion is low enough.
    Low enough? You do realize over $500 billion is not reported no? And that's a low estimate.

    Just the possibility of being audited is what makes sure that people pay their taxes, it works with the income tax, so it will work with even less collection with a universal sales tax.
    Come again? Most people are unaware that they won't get audited unless they have a few known red flags, such as a home office deduction (never ever take that). Businesses on the other hand know they have a surefire way of hiding sales. Simply don't ring up a cash sale on the register. And no, it doesn't work with income tax.

    The Underground Economy - Brief Analysis #273

    And that was in 1998. It's probably well over a trillion by now in unreported income.

    you show some evidence about how inneficent sales tax collection is to prove me wrong...
    Perhaps you should start reading links that are posted?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #484
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It helps offsets cost of rangers who look out for good use of public lands, for evaluation of wildlife populations so that they know how many hunting licenses can be issued without excessively depleting it, printing and issuing of the licenses along with publications outlining the rules and regulations, and other necessary administrative functions. If we want the government to have a role in protecting our environment and the creatures that occupy it, it is a quite reasonable fee for services.
    Here's my question:

    If this type of user fee is actually designed to cover things like that, then how come state legislatures routinely double or triple the fees in years when they have budget shortfalls? Is it because the cost of maintaining the wildlife actually tripled this year, or is it because it's entirely unrelated to the cost of maintaining the wildlife and is instead used as a general revenue raising tool?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #485
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The IRS currently has the resources to audit practically anyone they want to.
    Are you kidding? The IRS is one of the most understaffed organizations we have. If the IRS had the staff, they wouldn't be farming out collection work to private companies. Next to the SEC, the IRS is extremely understaffed.

    What one expects to happen with the national sales tax is that, instead of overseeing 300,000,000 individual citizen tax reports, it will be overseeing maybe 30,000,000 business tax filings.
    Which are more complicated and take more time to audit based on the numerous seemingly legal ways to hide sales, not to mention outright illegal non-reporting of cash sales.

    You're saying the government agency currently snooping into all business and personal incomes wouldn't be able to handle just the business accounts?

    Doesn't make sense.
    Auditing an individual is a far cry from auditing the inventory of millions of companies. And I'm not even discussing auditing the services provided by firms either. That's going to be a godd@mn mess in proving accurate sales.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #486
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    TN
    Last Seen
    12-19-10 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    38

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Because it is pretty much the only way to ensure a goods based company is reporting its total sales.
    Have you ever done inventory? Physically count every item you have in your store, then compare that with what you sold?

    Inventory one wall mart for one year. Then all wall marts for every year.

    Or.

    Lie about it. For every measure there is a counter measure, in the cases where an industry has a lot of money, it is easer to cheat the system they them selves had a hand in creating.

  7. #487
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    TN
    Last Seen
    12-19-10 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    38

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Here's my question:
    Is it because it's entirely unrelated to the cost of maintaining the wildlife and is instead used as a general revenue raising tool?
    It could be due to more people wanting to participate in the task that is fined. I could be wrong though.

  8. #488
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Io0011 View Post
    Have you ever done inventory? Physically count every item you have in your store, then compare that with what you sold?

    Inventory one wall mart for one year. Then all wall marts for every year.
    Exactly. Colossal pain in the butt. And if a firm really was out to cheat, it would simply rescan the same items in a continuous system. You'd have to constantly physically audit and tag items to ensure an accurate inventory for proper sales reporting. I don't think people here realize just how much of a pain this will be.

    Lie about it. For every measure there is a counter measure, in the cases where an industry has a lot of money, it is easer to cheat the system they them selves had a hand in creating.
    Given how businesses work now, forcing compliance in a national sales tax is going to be a nightmare.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #489
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Are you kidding? The IRS is one of the most understaffed organizations we have.
    That's good news.

    Let's cut some more IRS jobs, shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If the IRS had the staff, they wouldn't be farming out collection work to private companies. Next to the SEC, the IRS is extremely understaffed.
    They shouldn't be doing that anyway. Something about keeping private records private, ya know?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which are more complicated and take more time to audit based on the numerous seemingly legal ways to hide sales, not to mention outright illegal non-reporting of cash sales.
    No, it's not complicated at all.

    What were your sales this year? X dollars.

    Your is X.Tax dollars.

    You're trying to pretend it's more difficult to correlate a GAAP operated business than it is to sift through a bunch of individual tax returns with individual cirucmstances on each one, and then you're pretending it's more efficient to be snooping into all those lives.

    I've run a business. I've taken cash and not reported it to the government. The government doesn't do the work to earn the money, so why should I be punished by being honest? Guess what? Anyone that does too much of that does wind up getting caught because the books won't add up.

    Here's an real novel idea: Reduce government to the size it's supposed to be, which will reduce the taxes required, and more people will pay taxes because they'll weigh the cost benefits and choose to be honest.

    Why do people cheat on taxes now? Because the government is stealing too much.

    Any system that enables the oppressed a means to cheat their oppressors should be supported by everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Auditing an individual is a far cry from auditing the inventory of millions of companies.
    Yeah, it's harder, since there's so damn many of them.

    Then again, the average citizen can't afford a lawyer to protect themselves from their own government. That's another reason we should stop the government from intruding into people's private affairs.

  10. #490
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    They shouldn't be doing that anyway. Something about keeping private records private, ya know?
    What? Do you know what collections are?

    No, it's not complicated at all.

    What were your sales this year? X dollars.

    Your is X.Tax dollars.
    Okay, what's preventing people from lying?

    You're trying to pretend it's more difficult to correlate a GAAP operated business than it is to sift through a bunch of individual tax returns with individual cirucmstances on each one, and then you're pretending it's more efficient to be snooping into all those lives.
    Uh, not all businesses operate on GAAP. Furthermore, many cash basis GAAP have many ways of hiding sales. And no, the IRS doesn't go through individuals manually.

    I've run a business. I've taken cash and not reported it to the government. The government doesn't do the work to earn the money, so why should I be punished by being honest? Guess what? Anyone that does too much of that does wind up getting caught because the books won't add up.
    Hence why you have two sets of books. You should know just how easy it is to hide sales.

    The rest of your post is little more then diatribe that does not address why a national sales tax would be difficult to enforce,
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

Page 49 of 90 FirstFirst ... 39474849505159 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •