View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #471
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    A "fee" is something which goes to cover a specific service or specific cost. What specific service or cost does a hunting license "fee" go toward?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #472
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    A "fee" is something which goes to cover a specific service or specific cost. What specific service or cost does a hunting license "fee" go toward?
    It helps offsets cost of rangers who look out for good use of public lands, for evaluation of wildlife populations so that they know how many hunting licenses can be issued without excessively depleting it, printing and issuing of the licenses along with publications outlining the rules and regulations, and other necessary administrative functions. If we want the government to have a role in protecting our environment and the creatures that occupy it, it is a quite reasonable fee for services.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #473
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It helps offsets cost of rangers who look out for good use of public lands, for evaluation of wildlife populations so that they know how many hunting licenses can be issued without excessively depleting it, printing and issuing of the licenses along with publications outlining the rules and regulations, and other necessary administrative functions. If we want the government to have a role in protecting our environment and the creatures that occupy it, it is a quite reasonable fee for services.
    It's probably the one non crazy fee/tax that we have.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #474
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It helps offsets cost of rangers who look out for good use of public lands, for evaluation of wildlife populations so that they know how many hunting licenses can be issued without excessively depleting it, printing and issuing of the licenses along with publications outlining the rules and regulations, and other necessary administrative functions. If we want the government to have a role in protecting our environment and the creatures that occupy it, it is a quite reasonable fee for services.
    Fair enough.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #475
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Eh. Estimates always change when reality comes a knocking.



    Compliance. Doesn't matter what rate you have if you can't enforce it.



    See my previous posts. Numerous states across this country have problems with cash sales. You're going to have to audit inventory to force compliance. That itself renders national sales tax unrealistic.
    You can make as many claims that you want that a universal sales tax would be unworkable from tax evasion, but I just showed you a real study (from skeptics non the less) who said that a 39.3% tax would generate enough revenue.

    If that isn't good enough for you, then I am not sure what can be.


    I looked at your other post before and there was your comment about poor tax collection of sales taxes at the state level. But I don't see any evidence for that or how your unsupported claim refutes the information that I have found.



    and where are you getting that all inventories need to be audited? Today not everyone's income tax report is audited, and tax evasion is low enough. Just the possibility of being audited is what makes sure that people pay their taxes, it works with the income tax, so it will work with even less collection with a universal sales tax.

    you show some evidence about how inneficent sales tax collection is to prove me wrong...
    Last edited by nerv14; 01-18-10 at 04:41 PM.

  6. #476
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    A "fee" is something which goes to cover a specific service or specific cost. What specific service or cost does a hunting license "fee" go toward?
    Typically hunting and fishing license fees go towards the cost of the Fish and Game Service.

  7. #477
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your definitiion is not authoritative.

    I pay more in taxes than 99.8% of the country.

    I get nothing more in return. However, I cannot outvote 10 people who pay nothing

    that is disgusting. there is no incentive for net tax consumers to vote for fiscal sanity when they keep getting without being taxed.


    The koolaid is consumed by people like you who think a progressive tax is not going to ruin this nation
    Progressives taxation will not necessarily ruin this country because it has not destroyed Europe. Even if their economic growth is lower, educated people (where there is more of them in Europe) understand that too much progressive taxation will harm the economy.

    If what you said about people never voting to increase taxes if they don't have to pay them is true, then explain conservative movements now and in the past in Europe.

    People in Europe aren't that dumb enough to not understand that the rich can't pay all of the taxes. But people who don't pay taxes obviously have an increased incentive to increase spending over those who pay more income taxes.

  8. #478
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    First of all, there is significant cheating in reporting of sale tax to state revenue departments that exists today. Generally, for sales of goods, state auditors either compare a firm's sales and reported taxes with a known benchmark, namely a clean business or they audit the inventory. Most states never had the funds to fully state such departments in the first place. So do you realize you are saying that the poor system of ensuring compliance at the state level could be used nationally in realistic, simple and accurate way?

    Tell me, what department at the federal level is going to hire literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of auditors to ensure compliance if we get rid of the IRS?
    The IRS currently has the resources to audit practically anyone they want to.

    What one expects to happen with the national sales tax is that, instead of overseeing 300,000,000 individual citizen tax reports, it will be overseeing maybe 30,000,000 business tax filings.

    You're saying the government agency currently snooping into all business and personal incomes wouldn't be able to handle just the business accounts?

    Doesn't make sense.

  9. #479
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You know, reasonable people don't hold extreme views like that.
    If they don't hold views like that, they're not reasonable people.

  10. #480
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    to vote in a majority of far right conservatives who are for a regressive tax?
    Can someone explain how stealing more money from someone solely because he has more money is "progressive" and how allowing someone to keep the money he earned is "regressive"?

    What kind of retarded ass-backward world do these socialists live in, anyway?

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