View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #441
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's not an "opinion," it's a fact. I provided you with the hard numbers from the Tax Foundation. Your quotes are false.
    It is your opinion that your numbers are more correct than mine.

    Furthermore, can you show me where I've advocated for the fair tax?
    Not advocating for the fair tax is an admiral position to take! My hat is off to you!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #442
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is your opinion that your numbers are more correct than mine.
    No, I provided you with the actual hard numbers. You provided two quotes from political pundits and think that somehow translates into facts.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #443
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    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #444
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #445
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Legislative policies authored by and for the super-rich have, over the last 25 years, led to the systematic transfer of tax burden off the richest 5% onto working people."
    It’s growing: the gap between rich and poor



    Exactly~

    "But what is happening under Bush is something entirely unprecedented: For the first time in our history, so much growth is being siphoned off to a small, wealthy minority that most Americans are failing to gain ground even during a time of economic growth — and they know it."
    Paul Krugman on the Great Wealth Transfer : Rolling Stone
    I do not see anything in the Bush tax cuts that increased taxes on the middle class. They seemed to lower the taxes on the highest earners but did not shift taxes. Depending on whom you want to believe the cuts probably just added to the debt ( which is not good)

  6. #446
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I do not see anything in the Bush tax cuts that increased taxes on the middle class. They seemed to lower the taxes on the highest earners but did not shift taxes. Depending on whom you want to believe the cuts probably just added to the debt ( which is not good)
    Initially they added to the debt, but the purpose of the tax cuts is to stimulate growth and the growth of the economy that occurred in the 2000s translates into a growth in tax receipts. So while each individual pays less on the dollar, there are more dollars, so taxes collected goes up and it does not add to the debt.

  7. #447
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Initially they added to the debt, but the purpose of the tax cuts is to stimulate growth and the growth of the economy that occurred in the 2000s translates into a growth in tax receipts. So while each individual pays less on the dollar, there are more dollars, so taxes collected goes up and it does not add to the debt.
    Exactly, although the Bush tax cuts were tiny compared to Kennedy's and Reagan's--when income taxes were cut for everyone and it resulted in a huge boom in the economy, so in the end, government ended up taking in more money since the tax cuts help create more jobs (more tax payers), and many people's incomes rose and businesses expanded. It was a win-win for the people in the private sector and the government.

  8. #448
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    Exactly, although the Bush tax cuts were tiny compared to Kennedy's and Reagan's--when income taxes were cut for everyone and it resulted in a huge boom in the economy, so in the end, government ended up taking in more money since the tax cuts help create more jobs (more tax payers), and many people's incomes rose and businesses expanded. It was a win-win for the people in the private sector and the government.
    Beyond the tax cuts being larger under Kennedy and Reagan, it is important to remember that the tax cuts in the past reduced the top income tax burdon from the insane levels of 80 and 60% to the more manageable levels we had under Clinton of almost 40%.

    I see it that while Kennedy and Reagan cut the income tax from their insane levels put in place by Hoover (when he tried to ballance the budget after the Great Depression started) while Bush's tax cuts were a cut in an income tax that didn't need to be reduced any more.

    not to mention that we needed that surplus to shore up the budget, even before Bush's increased spending.


    and the whole idea about tax cuts always decreasing the debt to GDP ratio is false, because the debt to GDP in this country increases since Reagan cut taxes. Even thought the economy was helped, you can't claim that it helped reduce debt, even in the long run.
    Last edited by nerv14; 01-17-10 at 06:28 PM.

  9. #449
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Eh. All of the options other then cookies suck.

    The current system is way to complicated to be viable in the long run.

    A flat tax removes many useful methods of stimulating the economy and is regressive.

    A national sales tax is completely ridiculous in actual application. We'd need millions of auditors to ensure that companies are actually paying their sale tax. States can't even get accurate sale tax from their vendors. Thinking that we could do it nationally is certifiably insane. Anyone who thinks we could have an honest, accurate and viable national sale tax has never, ever worked in the private sector.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #450
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Eh. All of the options other then cookies suck.

    The current system is way to complicated to be viable in the long run.

    A flat tax removes many useful methods of stimulating the economy and is regressive.

    A national sales tax is completely ridiculous in actual application. We'd need millions of auditors to ensure that companies are actually paying their sale tax. States can't even get accurate sale tax from their vendors. Thinking that we could do it nationally is certifiably insane. Anyone who thinks we could have an honest, accurate and viable national sale tax has never, ever worked in the private sector.
    I agree that the sales tax would be ridiculously complex, would not simplify the system in the least, and would likely swell the bureaucracy that we already have. And, as previously stated, it is far more regressive than any other proposed system.

    While I agree that the flat tax would remove ability to use taxes for economic stimulus, and I continue to think about that, it would also remove ability of politicians to use taxes to manipulate votes.

    I can't see how it would be the least bit regressive, however.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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