View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #431
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I've not seen it in my lifetime. The trickle did not make it down to the middle class my friend.
    Of course it did. Since 1973 the wealth of the middle class has grown 29%.

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Payroll taxes are largely social security and unemployment taxes. Both of these taxes start at the first dollar of income and then max out at different levels.

    I am not sure about the exact numbers these days. The big one is social security. The tax rate is something like 7.5% and it taxes income between 0-90K. So people over the limit stop paying the tax.

    These are what is called regressive taxes as they tax people who earn less more as a % of their income.

    So using the numbers above as an example, if someone makes the average income of lets say 45K per year their social security tax rate is 7.5% while if their income is 180K or 4x the average the social security tax rate is 3.75%.

    Hope that helps.
    Numbers are not included to show if it would generate the same revenue as our current tax system.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #433
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Numbers are not included to show if it would generate the same revenue as our current tax system.
    I did not drop in numbers as there are a number of variables that would be tweaked in this type of system. The variables would include the tax rate used, the amount of deductible income before the first dollar of taxes are incurred if there is one. Assumptions on which part of the economy and workforce will show the greatest amount of growth etc. A rate will be proposed and the CBO will score if it indeed gets us to the same amount of revenue.

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Of course it did. Since 1973 the wealth of the middle class has grown 29%.
    "Legislative policies authored by and for the super-rich have, over the last 25 years, led to the systematic transfer of tax burden off the richest 5% onto working people."
    It’s growing: the gap between rich and poor

    The gap may be growin...
    Exactly~

    "But what is happening under Bush is something entirely unprecedented: For the first time in our history, so much growth is being siphoned off to a small, wealthy minority that most Americans are failing to gain ground even during a time of economic growth ó and they know it."
    Paul Krugman on the Great Wealth Transfer : Rolling Stone
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    a rate will be proposed and the cbo will score if it indeed gets us to the same amount of revenue.
    ok........
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Numbers are not included to show if it would generate the same revenue as our current tax system.
    Well, while it would be necessary to have those numbers to crunch before anybody signed off on a new system, let's go with the theory that we want this to include sufficient reform that we won't NEED the same revenue that our current tax system produces. Let's go for a smaller, more efficient, more effective, less corrupt government who moves as much to the private sector as possible and focuses on those things that government can do that actually do constructively serve the people.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well, while it would be necessary to have those numbers to crunch before anybody signed off on a new system, let's go with the theory that we want this to include sufficient reform that we won't NEED the same revenue that our current tax system produces. Let's go for a smaller, more efficient, more effective, less corrupt government who moves as much to the private sector as possible and focuses on those things that government can do that actually do constructively serve the people.
    Your point has to do with spending. The fair tax people seem to think they are fooling the country that they just want a tax system that more fairly assesses taxes, when in fact it would shift more of the burden from the wealthy to the middle class.

    If your issue is spending, I suggest you get a movement together to cut government spending instead of this backdoor scam approach of tax revision that most of us can see right through.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Legislative policies authored by and for the super-rich have, over the last 25 years, led to the systematic transfer of tax burden off the richest 5% onto working people."
    Itís growing: the gap between rich and poor



    Exactly~

    "But what is happening under Bush is something entirely unprecedented: For the first time in our history, so much growth is being siphoned off to a small, wealthy minority that most Americans are failing to gain ground even during a time of economic growth ó and they know it."
    Paul Krugman on the Great Wealth Transfer : Rolling Stone
    And both those quotes are complete and utter lies, as demonstrated a dozen times through this thread by the actual numbers.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And both those quotes are complete and utter lies, as demonstrated a dozen times through this thread by the actual numbers.
    You are of course entitled to your opinion. Where is the popular support for a consumption tax?

    It would appear that I'm not the only one not buying it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are of course entitled to your opinion. Where is the popular support for a consumption tax?

    It would appear that I'm not the only one not buying it.
    It's not an "opinion," it's a fact. I provided you with the hard numbers from the Tax Foundation. Your quotes are false.

    Furthermore, can you show me where I've advocated for the fair tax?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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