View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #401
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    Z3n's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post

    Having more wealth does not mean you incur a greater debt to government.

    Yes it absolutely does. Even after a progressive tax you still hold disproportionate wealth to your tax bracket if you are an upper class individual. If everyone paid a flat tax, most of the wealth held by society would be in the pocketbook of the elite and not the general public. Even after a 20% tax on a 200,000 income you still have more than enough wealth to live a very comfortable lifestyle. After say, that same 20% tax on a poor person, he or she might not have the means to live a healthy life or continue paying for her house.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  2. #402
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's crazy to suggest that poor people can't do that when the barriers to entry are basically nonexistent.
    To say that you did, does not prove the case for everyone. If everyone came from the same socioeconomic background that would be true, but that is simply not the case.

    Ever hear of the expression you can squeeze blood out of a turnip. To think that we can just tax the poor and middle class more to provide for even greater tax breaks for the upper class is ludicrous!

    Where does the public support for that come from???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #403
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Yes it absolutely does. Even after a progressive tax you still hold disproportionate wealth to your tax bracket if you are an upper class individual. If everyone paid a flat tax, most of the wealth held by society would be in the pocketbook of the elite and not the general public. Even after a 20% tax on a 200,000 income you still have more than enough wealth to live a very comfortable lifestyle. After say, that same 20% tax on a poor person, he or she might not have the means to live a healthy life or continue paying for her house.
    Then don't tax anyone at that insanely high rate.

    You create perverse incentives when you don't charge the person who uses the services, they demand more and more and expect to pay none.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #404
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    To say that you did, does not prove the case for everyone. If everyone came from the same socioeconomic background that would be true, but that is simply not the case.

    Ever hear of the expression you can squeeze blood out of a turnip. To think that we can just tax the poor and middle class more to provide for even greater tax breaks for the upper class is ludicrous!

    Where does the public support for that come from???
    That doesn't mean they can't though.
    If one poor person can do it, then all poor people have the potential to do it.

    I went from broke as hell to living quite nice precisely because I learned to manage my money wisely.

    The other poor persons I work and live around do not have those kinds of financial management skills, which is exactly why they will stay poor.

    It has nothing to do with exploitation or being unaffordable, it has everything to do with life choices.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #405
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Yes it absolutely does. Even after a progressive tax you still hold disproportionate wealth to your tax bracket if you are an upper class individual.
    So?

    Is there some law limiting how much money a person can own?

    If so, what on earth for?

    Why artificially limit someone's potential? Is his life your concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    If everyone paid a flat tax, most of the wealth held by society would be in the pocketbook of the elite and not the general public.
    So?

    What concern is it of yours? Or ours? You envious of your betters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Even after a 20% tax on a 200,000 income you still have more than enough wealth to live a very comfortable lifestyle.
    Since it isn't your life, it isn't your call to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    After say, that same 20% tax on a poor person, he or she might not have the means to live a healthy life or continue paying for her house.
    Life's a bitch. Maybe she should get married and have her husband share the burdens?

    Again, if I cared, I donate her some money. If you cared, you donate some of your own money. In either case, no one has the right to steal someone else's money simply because they're envious of the wealthy.

    Do you believe that changing your name but not your arguments it going to accomplish anything?

    To sum up what you said, you're argument is basically that if you have more money than the government thinks you should have, the government should have the power to take it.

    That's not a good argument.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 01-14-10 at 11:14 PM.

  6. #406
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    To say that you did, does not prove the case for everyone. If everyone came from the same socioeconomic background that would be true, but that is simply not the case.

    Ever hear of the expression you can squeeze blood out of a turnip. To think that we can just tax the poor and middle class more to provide for even greater tax breaks for the upper class is ludicrous!

    Where does the public support for that come from???
    Then again, no one's ever heard the expression "you can squeeze blood out of a turnip" because the expression is "you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip".

    Outside of that, it's irrelevant.

    The goal isn't to make tax breaks for the wealthy, the goal is to an egalitarian society in which all pay their share. Punishing the rich for being successful is an insane way of building a nation, but an amazing way of destroying one. A way that would make sense...if it was being implemented by a conquering enemy.

    Which is what socialists are, in America.

  7. #407
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What did I admit was illegal?
    Oh.

    Never mind.

    I thought I was responding to someone with a fourth grader's grasp of English, someone who knew what he was saying when he posted:

    "None of that is allowed by Article I, Section 8."

    You posted that, but you don't know what it meant.

    My bad.

    Now that I know I'm dealing with a first grader I'll treat you differently.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 01-14-10 at 11:24 PM.

  8. #408
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So?

    Is there some law limiting how much money a person can own?

    If so, what on earth for?

    Why artificially limit someone's potential? Is his life your concern?



    So?

    What concern is it of yours? Or ours? You envious of your betters?





    Since it isn't your life, it isn't your call to make.



    Life's a bitch. Maybe she should get married and have her husband share the burdens?

    Again, if I cared, I donate her some money. If you cared, you donate some of your own money. In either case, no one has the right to steal someone else's money simply because they're envious of the wealthy.

    Do you believe that changing your name but not your arguments it going to accomplish anything?

    To sum up what you said, you're argument is basically that if you have more money than the government thinks you should have, the government should have the power to take it.

    That's not a good argument.
    my only argument is that when some people, namely the private sector, hold disproportionate wealth, then they are in fact, a matter of concern to the working class.

    http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fac...thIncome07.gif

    Im not really interested in economics anyway, it just seems quaint that people want to keep the rich richer and poor poorer
    Last edited by Z3n; 01-15-10 at 12:43 AM.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  9. #409
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    my only argument is that when some people, namely the private sector, hold disproportionate wealth, then they are in fact, a matter of concern to the working class.

    http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fac...thIncome07.gif

    Im not really interested in economics anyway, it just seems quaint that people want to keep the rich richer and poor poorer
    That's not at all what people want.

    Poverty is relative, no one wants to keep the poor like that, they do that well enough themselves.

    I do expect everyone to pay their fair share, they don't do that and demand more at no expense to themselves.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #410
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's not at all what people want.

    Poverty is relative, no one wants to keep the poor like that, they do that well enough themselves.

    I do expect everyone to pay their fair share, they don't do that and demand more at no expense to themselves.
    I feel that more liberal economics would give people democratic control over political as well as economic matters, rather than the system we have now(not dissing capitalism, but the current implication of it) that concentrates the control of these areas into the hands of a small group of people at the top of the socio-economic ladder(CEO bonuses? sure you can be a fan of the market, but seriously?). It means giving you control over your workplace rather than in the hands of some board of trustees, the stock holders, or the bosses who are only interested in profit and not your livelihood. People need the right to a job with a living wage, decent housing, health care, education, etc. And I'd rather do that through that absence of the state than through "nationalization". I'm a weird breed I really am, I feel like I'm so socially left and internationalist, but when it comes to economics im just all over the place, and neither side can completely convince me.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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